Dad wants his boys to sleep in his tent

[EagleInKY]

For those who don't see the big deal about tenting with his patrol and how it is relevant to the patrol method, I'd ask these questions.

 

Assuming, you're okay with sleeping with family instead of patrol:

1) How about eating with family instead of patrol? After all, it's just a meal.

2) How about hiking with his family instead of his patrol? It's just a walk.

.... endless examples could follow.

 

No, the patrol method is about living, breathing, eating, sleeping... as a patrol. Anything you do outside of it detracts from it.

 

I find myself after every activity thinking back on about a dozen things we could have done different to strengthen the patrol system. And we're actually ones that try to live by it.

[LongHaul]

EagleINKY,

I could go down the "How many patrols share a site?" or "Do patrols travel together?" Do patrols shop for supplies together?" But that goes no where. THe original post did not identify this as a practice but an incident. I had bigger concerns with the original post which I brought up later. For now let me ask you this in an effort to see how far the "Patrol Method" extends in your view.

 

The "Fox" patrol decides to do a patrol overnight campout at a local camp ground which the troop has used in the past. The patrol members range from tenderfoot thru Star and from 11 to 14 years old. No adults are going just the Fox patrol. Do you as SM say Yes or No?

LongHaul

[BrentAllen]

LH,

Lots of variables to consider, but the proper way to handle this situation is clearly described in the SM HB, Chapter 4, pg. 22.

[EagleInKY]

Brent is correct. Lots of things to consider and they are fairly well spelled out.

 

As for other things, like travel, if it can be done, it should. Of course, seldom do you have the exact number of seats in a vehicle to match your patrol sizes. I find, however, that to an extent, this happens somewhat naturally.

 

As I said, I'm always looking back and finding ways I could have emphasized it more.

 

 

BTW, I agree that there are situations where it might be valid, such as the health and equipment reasons already stated. This was not the case in this situation and several posters indicated that they did not see the connection between tenting together and the patrol method.

[LongHaul]

So now that we all have read the "Book" I'll ask again. As SM do you say Yes or NO. Shall I assume that Brent and EinKY would allow overnight camping without adult supervision? Ya there are variables and conditions but is no adult camping an option?

LongHaul

 

[BrentAllen]

Yes, I would, if the criteria as described in the book was met. Unless the camp site was within hiking distance, adults would be needed to transport the boys. If I was confident the boys could handle themselves, I would be all for dropping them off and picking them up afterwards. I would consider it a crowning achievement of my leadership if they struck out on their own and held a successful campout.

 

"There they go. I must hurry after them, for I am their leader."

Unknown.

[EagleInKY]

Ditto Brent.

[Aquila]

I suppose if you live in a town with 32,000 people who are mostly related to each other, it might be a different situation ;-). There are a LOT of places, however, where it isn't *SAFE* to leave 12-14 year old boys alone. It's just plain irresponsible in many situations.

 

Back to the original question though, they're his sons. "Dad" trumps "Patrol Leader". Also, maybe there's a medical reason (wets the bed) or an emotional reason. Have a little faith in the dad.

[Its Me]

 

To follow-up with my original post. The father no longer requires his boy's to sleep in his tent. In fact we just did a patrol campout and neither the father nor the older brother came along.

 

I don't think this would have occured at the pace it did had we not pushed a little. That said, having been in this troop for five months, I can say that this was a symptom of a much bigger problem. All the campouts have been in RV parks and public campgrounds. This I believe was done so that family camping could take place. This troop is a webelos III troop.

 

We now plan to leave this troop either by forming our on troop or finding a suiatble troop that follows the boy scout program.

 

It was with irony that I read my old post about this troop exceeding expectations. I guess coming from Webelos and jumping into a Super Webelos program it looked pretty good. It took a while to recognize the all the events looked like a "Go See It".

 

 

 

[SSScout]

""Webelos lll""

 

I like that. Think I'll use it for descriptive purposes...

[Beavah]

Wow, Its Me. Dat's quite a change of heart in a few short months, eh?

 

Are yeh sure?

 

Beavah

 

[BrentAllen]

Its Me,

As Nike says, Just Do It!

Our situation wasn't quite that bad, but pretty close. We struck out on our own.

 

Everyone, please welcome new Troop 494, at Dunwoody Baptist Church. We signed the paperwork today and held our first meeting tonight. Six 11-year-olds eager for adventure!

 

We have a great chartering partner at the church. They have offered money, an equipment trailer, and are paying for the Troop flag. I think they want to do more, but we need to carry some of this load ourselves.

 

Its Me,

I have a t-shirt with the following on it.

 

Monday

Tuesday

Wednesday

Thursday

Friday

Saturday

Sunday

 

See?

 

There is no Someday.

 

Another thought for you, from Robert Frost:

 

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference."

 

"Do not follow where the path may lead... Go instead where there is no

path and leave a trail." -Robert Frost

[Lisabob]

Congrats there Brent! I hope you have a great first year. Keep us posted, will you? I'd love to see an occasional thread on building a new troop from the ground up.

 

Its Me, obviously I don't know your situation. I will say just one thing though (ha, as if I'm any good at keeping it short!). Like you, I was pretty involved with my son's webelos den (husband and I were DLs) and I thought I'd done a thorough job of researching area troops. But the first year my son was in his troop, I went from thinking they were fantastic to being seriously disillusioned, and then back to what was probably a more realistic, reasonably happy, medium. Now, they made some changes in how they handled their first year scouts, which went a long way toward my improved perceptions. But also, I had a better basis for judgment and understanding of the program after the first year. So sure, if it really is that bad, you might as well make the jump. But then, you might want to take a step back and consider whether some of this is just the (I think fairly normal?) process of getting to know a troop - any troop - warts and all. Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

 

[Its Me]

 

I can settle in and tell myself and my son that it's not so bad. Outdoor adventures, leadership development and self reliance are over rated.

 

I can continue to have long heart to heart discussions with the SM referencing where and how we could use the existing BSA program instead of making up one.

 

I can continue to listen to the committee who have asked me to change the intrenched practices of a 50 year old man.

 

I could work on getting rid of the endearing but inept SM from a troop which is charted by his church.

 

I could leave for another troop.

 

I could start my own troop.

 

What legacy would you choose?

 

Brent thanks for the words of encouragement.

[Aquila]

If he's not getting what he needs from the troop and isn't likely to in the future, I'd find another troop or start my own. Those teen years go so quickly.