when will we ever form patrols?

[gwd-scouter]

Hi forum folks. I've hesitated posting this question because I'm not sure I'll be able to ask it clearly enough.

 

As a reminder: we are a small troop with now 12 registered Scouts. A few of those Scouts are more or less inactive, or at least cannot be counted on to show up regularly for meetings or outings. Recently we've actually had a better than average turn out for meetings and outings (almost 100%), but our usual number is somewhere around 6-8 Scouts.

 

Add to that, it is not ALWAYS the same 6-8 Scouts.

 

We had a bit of excitement last month when we thought several Scouts and Dads from another Troop were going to transfer to ours. Turns out, their Troop got wind of this and has made major adjustments to the way they run the troop. Needless-to-say, I'm amazed that our little troop had so much impact on that once mega troop that they are changing their ways to avoid defections to ours.

 

Anyway, no transfers going to happen now. Also, couple of months ago was contacted by Webelos den leader of 10 who was bringing her den to a meeting. Well, we've only actually had a couple of those Scouts show up and go on last month's campout with the troop. The rest of her den is scheduled to visit one of meetings this month. But, in the end, I know that most of her den is already committed to joining the troop with the same CO, a couple of her scouts are joining another troop, and that just leaves 3 undecided. Hopefully, they will decide on us.

 

Still working with two other very very small packs, each with only one fifth grader this year, planning to cross over to our troop in the Spring.

 

So, very low recruitment once again this year. We will be losing three or four of our current scouts by the summer since three will be turning 18 and one has basically said he just doesn't have time because of sports.

 

That means even if we get 3-4 new Scouts this spring, we will still only have around 12 in the troop, still with a few of those guys that just can't be counted on to show up.

 

We are putting on a great show, the boys are planning fantastic outings, meetings are something less than spectacular but far better than boring, and attendance is up from last year.

 

But, we just can't seem to grab a good bunch of new recruits. It is hard enough to get new Scouts one or two at a time as we continue to do. As I said, we will probably get about four new Scouts this year, but they will come one or two in February, one or two in late April.

 

How, oh how, will we ever get to the Patrol Method? I know in my heart that it is the key area in which we are lacking. I just don't know how to get there, how to implement it, where and/or when to start.

 

We have tried in the past to set up two small patrols. The Scouts themselves organized them and elected patrol leaders. They essentially were one patrol of all the older scouts and one with all younger/new scouts. This wasn't so bad until we went on a couple of campouts and only a few of the younger scout patrol signed up and one or two of the older scout patrol. Most of the time the patrol leaders and SPL were absent. This led to combining the patrols for the campouts, which of course became combining the patrols for meetings, which led to having only one patrol, which led to absolutely no patrol method.

 

I've never had any better reminder of this than at last night's meeting when one of the scouts we had join last summer was asking one of our older scouts to sign him off on some of his Tenderfoot requirements. They came to the "know your patrol yell and describe your patrol flag." Well, guess what? We don't have patrol flags, yells, names because we don't really have any patrols. The Scout did remember the patrol name, flag and yell from the patrol he was in during summer camp!

 

I wouldn't have a problem going with two small patrols again, even if that means that perhaps only 3 guys from a patrol show up for a campout. However, if the same thing happens as before with poor turnout, it will cause the small patrol to have to do so much extra work at meetings and campouts that they'll start to think the whole thing is just too much work and lose interest.

 

Sorry if this post is rambling, but I sure could use your help and advice.

 

 

[scoutldr]

gwd, you are describing my troop, exactly. I will be interested in the replies. I think the problem is an overabundance of units in our geographic area, most of which are the same size we are. There are one or two "mega-troops" with 6 patrols and 23 ASM's producing 8-10 Eagles per year. But i have to wonder...how many separate units can the market bear?

[SR540Beaver]

gwd,

 

I was once involved in starting a troop of all 11 year olds. We only had about 8 boys total. There were no older boys to teach or train or lead by example. The adults had to fill in for much of that. What we did was go with one patrol and dispense with the SPL and ASPL roles. Heck, how could we have them? If we had an SPL and ASPL, that left us with 6 scouts. That would be 2 patrols of 3. Since not all 8 boys showed up all the time, the patrol method wasn't going to work very well with a patrol of 1 or 2 on a campout. We went with one patrol and PL who effectively was the SPL. He was charged with running the meetings as well as being in charge of his patrol. It worked for us. As small as you are, make one patrol with a PL and APL and have them function as a patrol until you grow to the point that you can have two patrols. Our first PL ran for and was elected to SPL when we had enough boys for two patrols.

[FScouter]

A patrol is a group of 6-8 boys that work together as a team. The more they work together, the more their patrol identity becomes established. As you discovered, every time you combine patrols you very effectively destroy whatever patrol identity they have built. Combined patrols means no patrols which means no patrol method. Youd be better off having one patrol if that avoids the temptation to combine.

 

The problem of lousy attendance is never solved by combining patrols. Combining patrols does not get more boys to choose a campout versus whatever else they might choose to do that weekend. That means you must build an interesting and exciting program such that the boys will want to attend.

 

If only 2 or 3 boys from a patrol can attend a particular event, then that patrol simply carries on with the boys they have. Our troop has had many campouts where one patrol or another only had 2 or 3 boys. Its really less work, not more, to cook for 2 versus cook for 8, clean up for 2 versus clean up for 8, etc.

 

I wouldnt worry so much about recruitment. Boys dont join because of a strong recruitment effort. They join because your troop has an exciting program. Build a strong program and recruitment will happen on its own.

[Beavah]

Yeh know, gwd, patrol method is a great thing. It's a useful way to break up a larger troop into small, working groups led by boys, that are the right "natural size" for boy leaders to handle. Pick-up ball-team size. Run around da neighborhood size.

 

If you're not there yet, you're not there yet. You're _at_ the perfect boy leader size. So have a patrol, eh? Elect a Patrol Leader, decide on a patrol flag and yell, run patrol outings. The only thing yeh can't pull off yet is patrol competitions, 'cause you only have one patrol. But that patrol can compete against itself (try to improve time, for example). Yeh can also team up with another troop that has one or two patrols for a real sense of patrol spirit.

 

Just don't try to force a square peg into a round hole. My experience has been the same as yours. A viable patrol in the modern world is usually 8-12 boys. That gives you enough so that you have 4-6 boys out for any particular event. So until yeh get up to 16 or so, you won't have enough for 2 patrols.

 

And keep workin' on your recruitin'. It's a funny thing, once you have good program, you'll suddenly find that your recruitin' "works" one year. Almost like yeh have to put in the time durin' those dry years to build a "buzz" that pays off down the road. You're buildin' buzz. Keep doin' it, you'll grow.

 

[Lisabob]

I sympathize with your ongoing efforts and am cheering for you from a distance every time I read the latest update in your quest. I wish I had an answer to the recruiting issue - I don't, except to say it sure sounds like you are doing all the right things and it will hopefully come with time. However, even with one patrol, the boys could still develop a yell and flag. If you get to a point where you have enough boys for a really solid second/third/etc. patrol then sure, you can have more flags and yells and patrol competitions, etc.. But for now - if one patrol is what you really have then go with it.

[Stosh]

GWD!

 

Are you nuts? You haven't figured out you've got the best situation in the world?

 

For many years we were "one" patrol being a very small troop. Ok, we also had 3 wood-badge trained leaders. We decided on going right to the top! Summer camp every year, and 2-3 other high-adventure. Philmont every other year and Sea Base on the other years. When we couldn't get in, Boundary-Waters or a self-created trip of some sort. Winter survival every year, and a summer camp in a different state every summer. You can only take a small group to BWCA or Philmont anyway, why lament not having numbers?

 

Well, word got around that we were THE troop to join. Now our membership in the past 2 years has quadrupled and we have 4 full/active patrols and are overwhelmed with trying to maintain the high level of program we have enjoyed for so long with our "little" troop. We had to send two crews to Philmont last summer and that meant it separated out the boys for the whole activity.

 

Oh, for the days of the small troop.

 

Enjoy what you have, you may regret your wish. So often we wish for something else, while ignoring what we have.

[gwd-scouter]

Thank you guys for such quick responses.

 

Scoutldr: Our District has about 10 Scout Troops: one that used to be our only mega-troop has now dwindled from an average of 60 Scouts to about 30. Another at one time had about 50 scouts and now has in the mid-20s. All the other troops are like mine, somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-20 Scouts, a couple with less than 12. I, too, have often thought that our area just isn't big enough or populous enough to have so many separate troops and that combining a few would be a good idea - but that's a subject for another thread.

 

I gather from you folks that the best thing we could do right now is focus on creating one strong patrol, elect a patrol leader for that one patrol and move forward. Have them make a patrol flag, select a name and a cheer.

 

I understand the suggestions that we would then not really need an SPL, but we have a couple of guys that seem eager to run for that position when we have elections next month. We have for a while had an SPL, an ASPL, PL, Troop Guide, Scribe, and Quartermaster - yep, almost everyone in the troop has a POR, but they have all actually been doing their jobs even if they've been a bit redefined for our particular situation.

 

I realize that's a bit weird to have an SPL, ASPL and PL since we only have one patrol, but I somehow thought that a troop HAD to have a SPL. Learning all the time.

 

As we have it now: SPL runs the meetings and heads-up the PLC, ASPL mostly just fills in when SPL is absent, PL and Troop Guide are in charge of those scouts under 1st class. That leaves a couple of older Scouts, admittedly not very active, that have no real sense of place in the troop. This set up has been working with some success, but it is confusing at times for the younger scouts about just who is in charge.

 

Thanks again folks. I look forward to more suggestions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dan]

I would suggest that you take these suggestion to your SPL and have him take it to the PLC and let them decide one or two patrols.

 

I would keep the SPL to run the troop and a PL to run the patrol.

No matter if you have one patrol or two. I probably would not have a ASPL. Until you get bigger (which I think will not be very long! sounds like you are providing a wonderful program).

I would have the SPL camp with the adults and over see the PL.

[ptaylor@baughinc.com]

High, my name is Paul and I was where you are now 3 years ago and in fact until my son's Den crossed-over (I doubled at pack and troop levels) our troop was between 4 & 13 scouts in size. We crossed over 14 with us so we now have 27 boys.

 

I agree with Dan, have a SPL and one or two patrols but let the boys decide.

 

Our troop started with 4 the first year with the SPL/PL leading the group. Once we got new scouts crossing over we let them form new boy patrols so they would all be same age. As the troop grew we let the PLC combine and create patrols based on age & rank. The FCE boys started out together in one or two patrols with the older boys forming one or two patrols depending on rank and rank needs.

 

I suggest letting the PLC decide how many patrols to form but give them opptions like; new boy, mixed rank, Venture patrol, ect... When you go camping the patrols can combine if needed or they can work in their own small patrols. This will give a since of pride and belonging.

 

Recruiting Webelos,

I suggest getting involved with a pack as either leaders, Den Chiefs, or Webelos support. The more contact you have with a group the more likely you are to get some of them at cross over. Also set up and agressive outing program, as a small group we are able to do Rifle/Shotgun, canoeing, climbing, backpacking, ect...This really brings groups out to see us. We now have 27-30 active boys in three years and continue to grow.

 

Yours in scouting,

Paul

 

Good luck and Good scouting.

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Hi Paul and Welcome to the Forum. What a pleasure to have your first post as a response to my thread!

 

I agree with you on building a strong relationship with packs. We currently have one Scout serving as a Webelos Den Chief for a small struggling pack. I also have had many conversations with the CM during roundtables and he seems to have good feelings about tying in with our Troop. Sadly, the Webelos Den right now only has one 5th grader and three 4th graders. As I said, very small pack.

 

We also have the pack we traditionally recruit from, but it too is a very small pack chartered by a private Christian school and currenly has one fifth grader and four 4th graders in the Webelos den. I have worked the past two years very closely with the Cubmaster of that pack and am meeting with the Webelos den leader this month to find out what, if anything, we can help with as a Troop.

 

Our campout in December was open to any and all Webelos. I contacted the two packs mentioned above but got no takers. I was contacted by the Webelos den leader from another pack that traditionally crosses its boys over to the Troop with same CO. I told her about the campout and she said she'd tell her den. Only a couple of the boys and parents/leaders came to the campout and have said they had a great time and are probably going to come to our Troop when they crossover.

 

So, recruitment continues to be small but we are trying.

 

I wonder sometimes if folks tend to overlook us because we are small, preferring to go to the larger troops in town simply because they feel that since the troop has so many boys it must be the best.

[ptaylor@baughinc.com]

Thanks,

Your wrote: "I wonder sometimes if folks tend to overlook us because we are small, preferring to go to the larger troops in town simply because they feel that since the troop has so many boys it must be the best."

 

I have found in the past 3 years this was indeed happing, sometimes it was the parents pushing or programs. I also found that boys going to larger troups tend to get "lost in the group" and drop out of scouting all together. We have been able to pick up three boys that got lost in large troops and where about to drop out.

 

Keep working your contacts, stay involved with you district and councle and your group will grow.

 

One thing we are doing that is drawing some attention is we set up a Webelos support program where we will supply support to Den leaders to help the boys earn pins, AOL, SMC, ect...this helps keep our face fresh with the up and coming Webelos.

 

Another thing we do is this; if a den is about to finish the year or is about to cross-over but has boys that do not have their AOL at crossover we will supply a Webelos trained leader to help them continue in scout while meeting with the troop. In other words the boy is still a cub scout and belongs to the pack but his den leader is a troop leader (trained) so he has a den meeting once a week during the troop meeting. This keeps the boy involved until he earns his AOL or turns 11.

 

Paul

[Lisabob]

Recruiting has its up and down years. So this year is looking a little small but then you've identified 7 current Webelos I boys in the two packs you have ties with, who will be eligible to join your troop next year. Also I don't know if it is an option but maybe you could do a recruiting talk in the 5th grade class at the private school. If they only have one W II scout then there's an untapped market there (unless all the other 5th graders are girls!).

[gwd-scouter]

LisaBob, yes we have tapped the school and did recruiting in the classroom last year. We did the recruitment for the 6th graders at the beginning of the school year. Result was one scout each year. Our Advancement Chair is a teacher at that school and has been a huge help in getting us in the door to make our pitch.

 

We are planning to target the fifth graders this spring and maybe we'll be lucky and get a couple from that effort.

 

No, the school isn't mostly girls, but class sizes are about 10-15 and evenly split boys-girls.

 

Having thought about it a bit: for two years before I was SM, we had no recruitment at all; two years ago we got two new Scouts from recruiting; last year we got four. OK, so we have increased recruitment. I guess I'm just so anxious for our troop - we've come so far - but, I always feel like we are on the precipice of falling apart (yeah, I know, I post all those threads about the wonderful things that happen - I tend to get a bit overenthusiastic about the good stuff).

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Patrol system is the process that boys can easily ascribe to get to where they want to go and do things they want to do. Going to Philmont and the Boundary Waters yearly is, IMO, an overly expensive way to purchase numbers for a unit. Let the boys decide on 100% of the programs but relegate 70% of the programs locally, 20% beyond 50 miles and 10% beyond 100 miles. (*Use your resource survey to find new and unusual places) Dont break the bank to make a unit. Boys and most parents are practically minded and will support an active program that is fun. Make sure that one parent from each Scout is doing something for the unit every year. Each program should be rounded out with activities that have some amount of adult support to ensure quality. Have the boys evaluate each event and come up with solutions to make the next one better. Do a yearly project for your CO. Make sure you have a couple of yearly traditions that everyone joins in to make them bigger and better. Keep records, written and pictorially to show (advertise) to others at any opportunity of all that you are doing. Vote on a yearly plan and get adult support/commitments and then write it down. Distribute it to everyone inside and outside the unit. The program is the vehicle that Scouts chose to drive to their destinations. If you have hidden it behind a thicket of How to Patrol, then nobody will be kicking the tires except you. Let the boys drive and dont worry so much. (*I am speaking with Analogy here.) Your confidence goes a long way on the drive to reaching the Aims of Scouting. fb(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)