Fragmentation

[Stosh]

How does one deal with the issue of adult leaders viewing the patrol method as fragmenting the troop?

 

The greater the patrol autonomy the less troop autonomy is seen. This is being viewed as a threat to the troop as a whole.

[CNYScouter]

You can start with the Baden-Powell quote on page 20 of the current Scoutmaster Handbook:

 

"The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the only way."

 

 

Other quotes attributed to Baden-Powell about the Patrol Method:

 

The object of the patrol method is not so much having the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy.

 

It is the Patrol System that makes the Troop, and all Scouting for that matter, a real co-operative matter.

 

The patrol system leads each boy to see that he has some individual responsibility for the good of his patrol.

 

 

A quote attributed to William "Green Bar Bill" Hilcourt:

 

"A troop is not divided into patrols; it's made up of patrols."

 

Take at look at what it says about Patrols at:

 

http://www.greenbar.ws/4adults/missing/patrolmethod.cfm

 

and

 

http://www.greenbar.ws/4scouts/thepatrol.cfm

[CNYScouter]

Also from the White Stag Leadership Development course on Creating the Patrol Method:

 

Baden-Powell described it most succinctly.

In 1888, BP wrote:

 

"The formation of the boys into Patrols of from six to eight and training them as separate units each under its own responsible leader is the key to a good Troop."

 

http://www.whitestag.org/patrol_method/index.html

[FScouter]

A troop is not a group of boys, it is a group of patrols. Liken this to a Cub Scout pack. Is the pack fragmented by dens? A pack is nothing but a group of dens.

[SR540Beaver]

These are all great responses to the question as stated. Jblake, can you provide a little more detail? Is it just an adult perception problem, or do you have a patrol running amok and going agianst the PLC. I guess what I'm asking is why these adults leaders think there is a problem? Do you have patrols acting totally independent of one another or cooperating thru a PLC? A patrol should have a certain amount of autonomy depending on how things are set up to accomodate the program. Most troops don't practice it, but patrols can do patrol camping without any adults present. Several factors come into play to do this. Is a patrol mature enough and experienced enough and are all safety concerns satisfied. The SM would have final say on whether to allow a patrol campout away from adults. Most troops don't consider something like this and are not set up for it. What if every patrol wanted to do their own individual campout each month with no adults involved? Now that is patrol autonomy! But what about adult association? How are the boys going to get to camp? What if two patrols want to go to opposite ends of the state on the same weekend and both want to use the same equipment? If things like this were happening, I can see how some adults would be concerned at the troop level.

 

More info please.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with SR540. Can yeh give us a bit more to work with?

 

I'm interested in how big the troop is, and whether it's growin' or shrinking. It would also help to know who the adults are who have voiced this concern. And some sense of what the "troop method" has looked like for them.

 

Patrols do fragment a troop, eh? That's their point. They break things up into manageable groups for kids. Gives lots more kids leadership experience and independence. But it does feel like somethin' is missin' to adults. Kinda like some managers like to have big meetings all the time, eh? It may help 'em feel more "in touch" and let 'em talk more, but it isn't usually the best way for the workers to get things done.

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

speaking in general:

 

The problem with accepting the Patrol Method is one of control and having faith that Scouts can learn or arrive with the product (Aims of Scouting). This does not mean that Scouts do not need counseling/guidance. This also means that Scouts need to learn the skills of leadership which are fundamental and gives the process structure. Along with these skills are the eight Methods of Scouting when balanced will fully integrate a program that (from the outside) looks like it runs itself. One of the clues of successfully obtaining the product of the Patrol Method is when the adult leadership actually engages and is doing the duties for their own jobs. The results are also noticeable during a Scout's presentation of himself during BOR's.

 

Besides accepting and working with these program elements, an adult leader needs to be patient because it takes time for boys to learn to lead. The other adult program feature is to ensure that a proper (*balanced) amount of fun is always available. fb

 

[Kudu]

You can start with the Baden-Powell quote on page 20 of the current Scoutmaster Handbook:

 

"The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout troop, it is the only way."

 

The current BSA Scoutmaster Handbook is incorrect. Baden-Powell did not use the "Patrol Method," he used the "Patrol System."

 

All quotation sources that cite Baden-Powell using the term "Patrol Method" are wrong. For instance:

 

The object of the patrol method is not so much having the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy.

 

"Having the Scoutmaster trouble," eh?

 

If we use the Baden-Powell Patrol System, then any Troop in which the Scoutmaster appoints adults and/or any Scouts other than Patrol Leaders to "sign off" on requirements is "having the Scoutmaster trouble."

 

If we use the Baden-Powell Patrol System, then any Scout who has been signed off by his Patrol Leader only to have his Patrol Leader over-ruled by the Scoutmaster in a so-called "Adult Association Method" Scoutmaster Conference is "having the Scoutmaster trouble."

 

If we use the Baden-Powell Patrol System, then any Scout who is denied advancement as a result of the Scoutmaster using "Scout Spirit" against him is "having the Scoutmaster trouble."

 

So, Jblake47, the BSA "Patrol Method" is ALEADY a MAJOR compromise between Baden-Powell's far-too-radical-for-most-American-Scouters "Patrol System" and the common adult tendency to disenfranchise Patrol Leaders by using the "non-fragmented" Troop Method that you are witnessing!

 

Therefore the "Patrol Method" is viewed by most Americans as more "practical" than Baden-Powell's "Patrol System." But to get first-class results from THIS system you have to give the boy leaders REAL free-handed responsibility--if you only give partial responsibility you will only get partial results. The main object is not so much saving the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy, since this is the very best of all means for developing character.

 

"Having the Scoutmaster trouble" is only ONE of the problems Americans would face if we actually used the Baden-Powell Patrol System.

 

We would also be having the:

 

TROOP Committee trouble (Boards of Review which further undermine the Patrol Leader's authority),

 

TROOP "New Scout Patrol" trouble and the

 

TROOP Guide trouble (in which the complete usurpation of a Patrol Leader's authority over Tenderfoot through First Class advancement is institutionalized),

 

TROOP Instructors trouble (the Patrol Leader should be the Patrol's instructor!)

 

TROOP "Leadership Development Method" trouble (in which the position of Patrol Leader is viewed more as a six month advancement requirement opportunity to teach "leadership" rather than THE appointed office of THE most-qualified natural boy leader)

 

TROOP Junior Leader Training trouble (JLT is designed to teach corporate leadership skills to all of the TROOP "Junior Leaders," as opposed to "Patrol Leader Training" which teaches skills that are useful only to the Patrol Leader and his Assistant)

 

TROOP elections trouble (in which the most qualified Patrol Leader can be replaced by the most popular boy)

 

TROOP SPL & ASPL trouble (in which the SPL "runs the TROOP" rather than serving at the pleasure of the Patrol Leaders)

 

TROOP Quartermaster trouble (the fact that the patch does not read "Patrol Quartermaster" SCREAMS "Troop Method")

 

TROOP monthly camping trouble (in which the Patrols are allowed to camp closer than 300' apart)

 

TROOP summer camp "first year Scout program" trouble (designed to further usurp the Patrol Leaders' authority over advancement) and

 

TROOP summer camp central dining trouble (in which the TROOP eats catered meals together to make the factory Merit Badge "Advancement Method" more "efficient" than is usual with Patrol cooking);

 

So Jblake47, you see? Those who view the Patrol Method as "a threat to the troop as a whole" don't know how lucky they are.

 

Try to imagine how unhappy they would be if the BSA used the Baden-Powell Patrol System!

 

Kudu

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

Before the forward pass was invented in football,

 

people ran the ball on every play.

 

So, when the forward pass is used in football today,

 

the inventors of football would be equally saddened.

 

More than likely they would not consider it to be football

 

at all.

 

Burma Shave

 

[Kudu]

Burma Shave writes:

 

So, when the forward pass is used in football today,

the inventors of football would be equally saddened.

 

Fuzzy,

 

In the BSA version of the game the referees are the only eligible receivers. This places the referee in the best position to judge the pass.

 

Upon completion, the referee judges the "Football Spirit" of the player who threw it. If the referee decides that this player exemplifies the "Ideals of Football," he signs off on the pass and the player must then make an appointment for his Board of Review.

 

The player is expected to show up for his Board of Review in a clean uniform, be able to recite the Ideals of Football, and answer about 20 minutes of questions.

 

Some people are saddened by how long it takes to finish a game under the new rules. They lament how much football changed after activist judges ruled that Congress had granted the BSA a monopoly on football, but almost everyone agrees that the BSA has been better than the NFL at keeping the "wrong kind of people" out of the game.

 

Under the BSA, the porpoise of football is not winning the game but teaching "Leadership Development!"

 

To this end team members' training and practice is centered around an indoor corporate leadership skills course called "BSA Leather Badge in the 21st Century."

 

Under the new Leadership Development rules, in order to "Advance," a team member must serve in a "Position of Responsibility" as Quarterback. The porpoise is not to have the most qualified person serve as Quarterback, but to give every team member a chance to experience "Leadership."

 

The game is very well documented in the BSA's Football Handbook of more than 100 pages (triple-spaced with many illustrations and blank pages labeled "Notes").

 

Written by the same team of home-schooled religious fundamentalists that wrote the Scoutmaster's Handbook, the publication rises to the BSA's very highest standards of scholarship, historical accuracy, and commonsense.

 

I get all weepy whenever I view my very favorite page, the one with the BSA's artist's rendition of the inventor of the forward pass, Knute Rockne, in his Miami Dolphins uniform. Under his portrait is what the BSA cites as Knute's most famous phrase:

 

"Football is a Game with a Porpoise"

 

Kudu