The Troop Method defined!

[bowhunt120]

After reading the Troop Method thread, I thought you would all enjoy my experience with my older son - this Troop DEFINES the "Troop Method" and the "Webelos 3" Troop!

It has been nine months since my older son crossed over into Boy Scouts after earning his Arrow of Light. Since then, the troop has held five camping trips. Two specifically addressed the Camping Merit Badge. These had a definite program, planned by a small group of boys and supported by the MBC (also our ASM) and me, a fully Trained WDL, and Star Scout/OA for Life. One was a week at our council summer camp, which my son enjoyed thoroughly it was the highlight of his summer. The other two trips were attended primarily by older scouts WITH A PARENT! These trips were essentially parent-son campouts with no program. The second of these events was held at a State Park less than 10 miles from home. Friday night, there were no registered leaders present. Only two Scouts shared a tent everybody else (except me and my son) shared a tent with their parent. Saturday morning, the parents did the cooking and cleaning up. The boys played Texas Hold em. My son was not interested in this activity and went to his tent to read by himself (it was windy and cool). By 9 AM I was furious, and asked my son if this was how he wanted to spend his day. He answered no, so we packed up our gear (less than 30 minutes we pack very light compared to the rest of the troop) and were home by 9:45. Apparently, my departure (I told one of the parents why I was leaving) and the arrival of a registered leader later that day caused a change in direction. The program probably was not boy led, but at least it was Scouting in some form. They did some orienteering, and the boys cooked the meal for the Cook Off (this was a multi-troop event).

 

Let me also state that I have no objection to boys filling in free time with card games as long as there is no actual gambling. These boys were using chips there was no money changing hands before or after the game. But in this case, there was no program planned. The troop decided to attend on the previous Monday, and did no planning other than Bring your own food and tents, and show up at the Park when you can. As we say in my business, that is not a plan its a calendar (or clock, for shorter periods!) Nowhere in the Scout Handbook does it talk about developing your card counting, probability and statistics skills.

 

This type of event is typical of this troop. No plan no program. This troop is not boy led. In fact, my wife and I call it a Cub Scout Troop. We have permanent Patrols where all the boys have been together since Tiger Cubs in many cases. All the boys in a given patrol have about the same merit badges (they work on them in Troop meetings) and all are usually of the same rank, or advancing within a few months of each other. The parents take input from the boys as to what MB is next (their idea of boy led), and then find a parent in the troop who can do that badge, in many cases by staying one page ahead. Sounds an awful lot like Cub Scouts, doesnt it? Also in those 9 months, I have seen ONE Troop meeting that was planned by the boys and executed by the boys, where parents only played a support role. And it was the best Troop meeting weve had.

 

At the time of Crossover, I did suspect that the Troop was not boy led. At my sons troop meeting visit, the SM spoke for over 40 minutes! However, since that was the troop his friends were joining, my son did not want to go to the other troop in town on a shopping trip. I let it drop, and here we are. Since then, a Webelos Den of 7 boys has become a Patrol of 4 boys, with 4 dropouts and 1 new recruit.

 

Now for my dilemmawhat do I do about it? As for the events of this last campout, I know I could have handled it differently. My anger clouded my judgment and prevented me from thinking through a better solution. The SPL was the ringleader of the Texas Hold em game. I could have pulled him aside and asked him if this was the whole program for the day, or did he want to do something more Scout-like? But that is just a small part of the overall problem. This troop is broken and needs to be fixed. The ASM wants to do the right things, but he is impeded by the parents of the older scouts who think this is the way it should be done. You see, the oldest Scouts are all Life rank, with Eagle packets held tightly by Mom and Dad. And they hold tightly to their committee positions, like Advancements and Chairman. They even openly deride the ASMs efforts to transition to boy leadership and adherence to BSA Safety rules in front of their sons!

 

Ultimately, I dont think this troop can be changed. Yet, I dread the demands of starting a new unit, especially in a small town. I am positive I can get a good Chartered Organization relationship (something else lacking in our Troop and Pack) from a service/religious organization of which I am a member (so is the ASM mentioned above). But I have doubts that I can attract at least four other boys as required for a new unit. And I dont even want to think about the repercussions of returning to this troop after a failed start!

 

Based on what I have told you, is there anything you can think of that might help turn around this troop? Closing off one part of your answer the Chartered Organization is a non-factor (only two scouts and their families are members of the chartering church, and this is reflected in the quality of the relationship between the units and the church), we have no Unit Commissioner, the District Commissioner has been MIA for months, and the District Executive is a fresh faced kid out of college who happens to be an Eagle Scout, but with little or no real experience that could help him. He hasnt been to DE School yet, either.

 

Growing boy leadership from the bottom up with our youngest patrol (my sons) is essentially undermined every week when we go to a troop meeting and the SM does most of the talking and most of the planning.

 

 

[SueM]

Wow..this sounds like a tough situation! You don't say if the other adult leaders in the troop are trained...if not, perhaps encouraging them to go to BLT might give them some insight that could be helpful.. You also say that you are a trained WDL...so I assume you have not gone through BS Leaders Training???

 

What if you were to take on the role of of being the adult patrol advisor to your sons' patrol...start doing some patrol outings with just them...let them do the planning..help them start learning what they should be doing...

 

Good luck!!

 

sue m.

[gwd-scouter]

Wow, so many similarities to what our troop had become a little while back and what I faced when stepping up as SM 13 months ago. The only difference is that we didn't have ANY parents involved in any way other than the SM and one ASM. But, both their sons had reached Eagle the year before and dropped out so SM and ASM were just waiting for someone new to join and take their places.

 

Big surprise for my husband and I that one year after our son joined the troop we find out all the adult leadership is leaving! Ah, water under the bridge.

 

Back to your situation: Sue M makes a very good point. You mention your Webelos den of 7 is now a patrol of 4. That's a good place to start. From you description, you'll never be able to do anything about the older boys and parents. And, if they are all about to make Eagle, they won't be your problem for much longer.

 

Talk to the SM and tell him you're going to be the ASM assigned to the new scout patrol (or whatever you call it). Concentrate on those younger guys and help them to learn to take control of their patrol. Nothing says a patrol has to do only what the troop plans. In fact, patrols are encouraged to go out on their own. With such young guys, it will take a lot of patience on your part and learning on their part - making mistakes along the way. But that's all part of the process. So go, have fun, do Boy Scout stuff and look toward a brighter future.

 

Won't be easy and won't happen overnight, but it can happen.

[SueM]

I also think that Bowhunter is a great candidate for Wood Badge Training and he should stongly consider taking it as soon as he possibly can!! He's got the vision already and just needs to run with it and make it happen!!

 

Sue M.

[dan]

Do not go up to the Scoutmaster and tell him you are going to be the ASM for the NSP. Ask him if that is what you want to do.

If you stay in this troop your son will never know what boy lead or patrol method is. And when he grows up to be a leader he can run the troop just like his old troop did it!

There have been many discussion on how long it would take to turn around a troop that is not boy lead or using the patrol method, the magic number is 5 to 6 years.

Gwd Scouter is sounds like you have been able to do it a bit faster, I am assuming that is because all of the leader have left and you did not have to try and change them only the scouts?

I think training will only help you a little bit it sounds like you already have a good grasp of Boy Scouts.

[gwd-scouter]

Dan is right, ask the SM don't tell him - sorry I didn't type it correctly.

 

Dan, you are also right in that all the old leadership in our troop eventually left so I really haven't had to change around any "that's the way we always did it" type leaders. Did have one former SM return last Feb. just after I took over as SM and I think he was sure that I would step down and turn over the job to him. But, the committee felt strongly that I stay in the job and so he said he was OK being ASM. He sure made things difficult. In July, after only 5 months, he left, causing a big scene as he went saying we weren't following the G2SS and other accusations. Sour grapes. I saw the biggest progress in our troop from that point on.

 

Of course, the older scouts in the troop have also been less than receptive to the changes, especially when told they actually have to do something and show up to do something in their PORs. But, even they are coming around.

 

Did we change around faster? No. I still see several more years of work ahead. It's been only a little more than a year and first steps toward progress are being seen. Still have to work on PLC meetings, individual patrol meetings haven't started yet because we just formed patrols and are having elections next week.

 

But, the guys did have their first ever yearly planning meeting last August and so far have managed to carry out each month's outing. Still don't have weekly troop meeting plans yet as they are set up pretty much on the fly.

 

So, much more road to travel.

 

Bottom line I guess is that a troop can be changed from a "Cub Scout" Troop to a real boy led Boy Scout Troop. But it will take several years, you need the help of the other adults (or at least you need them to stop throwing up road blocks) and most importantly you need to get the boys to see that vision and work toward it. Your post mentions an ASM in the Troop that shares your ideas. Start with him. What about the parents of the Webelos that crossed over? Are they helping on the Committee?

 

Your son should get the best Scouting experience he can and it sounds like you want that for him. Talk with your son and see how he feels. If your efforts to change this troop fall on deaf ears, perhaps it's time to find another troop.

 

 

[bowhunt120]

Thank you everybody for your posts. I knew the problems of this troop were pretty common from reading this forum regularly over the last few months!

 

I would like to take Wood Badge training - my work schedule did not allow me to attend last year when my Council held it. It will be even more difficult in the near future, as I work a rotating shift. I schedule my younger son's Webelos Den meetings around my days off. I was not the den leader for my older son. We were new in town, and the den already had a willing (but untrained) den leader. He ran Webelos like a den of "Super Bears".

 

I have not yet attended any Scout leader training, mostly because I have not been invited to be an ASM by the committee. Maybe I will approach the SM and ask if he would like some more help. Especially since I know the ASM mentioned in the previous post is looking for job out of town - he will likely be gone within a couple of months.

 

Anyway - thanks again, and keep posting!

[SueM]

I would not wait for the invitation from either the SM or Committee to take the training...go and do it...especially if you DO plan on taking

Wood Badge in the future because one of the requirements is that you are trained for your current position. So, even if that is that you're a committee member, you will need to take Fast Start, New Leaders Essential and do the Troop Committee Challenges. Besides..if you DO end up moving to a different troop, and have taken the Basic Leaders Training..I'm sure they will welcome an already Trained adult leader with open arms...I know that I would!!

 

Have you checked into seeing if other local Districts or Councils might be offering Wood Badge at a time when you CAN attend??? That is always an option.

 

sue m.

[t158sm]

This strikes me as very similar to a troop in my area. What council are you in?