Requiring "Virtual" Patrols at District Events

[Beavah]

The new troop we joined has moved in this direction also. I have even seen them appoint a temporary SPL when on my sn's first trip the SPL, neither of the two ASPL's or any PL's were going.

 

I may be confuseled, but what's da problem with this now? If neither the SPL or ASPL can make a trip, shouldn't another boy be appointed "temporary SPL" for the trip (by the regular SPL)? Or should the adults just take over? It's nice when the SPL can make everything, but schedules conflict, or kids get sick, eh?

 

I see nothin' wrong with the two PL's agreeing to have their patrols collaborate for the weekend. That's a kid-level decision that I think a wise SM stays out of. What's more, it's what any of us adults would do confronted with the same circumstances. Seems silly to veto a decision we would make ourselves.

 

Now, if you're concerned that it's happening too often, then I think the wise SM increases the size of the patrols. If you average 50% attendance, then a patrol size of 10-12 is probably better than a patrol size of 4-6.

 

[CNYScouter]

If a Troop of ~27 Scouts, with about ~18 active, is going to have a SPL and 2 ASPL's one of the three should be at every troop activity.

I understand that kids are busy but if they want to take on a POR they should be willing to fulfill the responsablities that go along with it.

If youth leaders are not there how can they be fulfilling their POR?

And the temporary SPL - selected by an adult leader.

 

Troop is at 8 scouts per patrol (3 patrols for 24 kids) but is only running about a 20% attendance at monthly activities.

What good does it to have more scouts in a patrol if your not going to be using the patrols and combining them whenever

 

How does the combining of Patrols support the Patrol Method?

How does combining of Patrols increase Patrol Spirit?

How does the patrol method fail because of fewer boys?

If few scouts are attending shouldn't we be figuring out why that is and trying to fix the problem?

Even if studies show that it's not a good practice to combine patrols (or teams) because it harms the original patrol (or team) we should do it anyway because it seems makes common sense to do so?

Where does it say that the patrol method is the combining of patrols?

 

to borrow from FScouter:

6 to 8 boys is ideal. 5 is less than ideal, 2 or 3 more difficult but doable. "Virtual patrol" is NOT even a patrol at all. It is just a group of random troop boys. 2 boys attending from a patrol is still a patrol. Random boys thrown together is nothing more than random boys thrown together.

 

If you expect the patrol method to be successful, you don't toss it out at the first sign of trouble.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

"Troop is at 8 scouts per patrol (3 patrols for 24 kids) but is only running about a 20% attendance at monthly activities."

 

With all due respect CNYS, if the troop is only seeing 20% participation at monthly activities, there are probably bigger issues than adherence to the Patrol Method.

 

SA

[FScouter]

"...if the troop is only seeing 20% participation at monthly activities, there are probably bigger issues ..."

 

EXACTLY! Juggling boys around to come up with a pseudo-patrol is not a solution. Too often we take actions that do more to mask the problem than to solve it. The real solution (though more of a challenge) is to fix the attendance problem.

 

[gwd-scouter]

I apologize in advance for the Long Post:

 

Ah, fix the attendance problem. What an interesting statement. Just how do you do that? That's the question I was asking myself over a year ago.

 

The Troop we are in has at various times been Troop method and Patrol method.

 

About 8 years ago when the troop was just getting started the SM was new and eager, the ASMs and Committee were new and eager, and the Scouts were new and eager. Everyone learned and worked hard and Patrols were functioning with leaders, cheers, flags, names - the whole works.

 

Cut to several years and several scoutmasters later. Troop had zero young Scouts, a couple who had Eagled out and quit, and a few remaining older Scouts.

 

That's about the time my son and I joined around two years ago. The first few months after we joined I was Advancement Chair and really didn't pay much attention to the methods being used as I didn't go on campouts and didn't listen in throughout Scout meetings.

 

But, got more involved when I noticed that campouts kept getting cancelled. Biggest reason - not enough leaders. Leaders who had sons that Eagled out weren't interested anymore. But, another reason was not enough attendance by the Scouts. Troop had more or less been turned into a social evening by the older Scouts who sat around talking about school, jobs, girls, etc.

 

A few months after we joined, two more younger Scouts joined and they and my son were made a "patrol" and worked on their flag and patrol cheer. My son and one of the new Scouts were very enthusiastic about it, but they were essentially all alone. The other young Scout hung out with the older guys. At the same time, an older brother of one of those young Scouts transferred from another Troop. He was really a go getter, very involved in OA and seemed like just the shot in the arm our Troop needed.

 

But, he got sucked into the apathy of the other older Scouts and soon he, like the others, only did anything or worked with the new guys when the SM told them to. No Troop Guide, SPL was never there. Most other PORs on paper only. No real jobs to do.

 

After being in the Troop for about 4 months, the spring camporee came. Surprise, 7 Scouts were going. I went to help out since only the SM was going and ASM couldn't come till Saturday afternoon. SM did all the cooking for himself and the older guys. No one helped or even looked out after the younger scout patrol.

 

Rained Friday night and guess what? Yep, younger Scouts sharing a leaky tent asked the older Scouts who were sitting around to help them get a new tent set up. They just ignored the request. SM finally put up a tent for them.

 

And, I gotta say I was dismayed at the topics of conversation and language being used by those older scouts sitting around.

 

What a horrible first night.

 

When I left after the ASM arrived next morning, I had serious concerns about staying with this troop. So, at Troop Committee meeting I finally spoke up (having held back since I was the newbie and didn't want to make waves).

 

The result, guess who was made SM? Yep, found out if I didn't like the way things were being done, they'd let me do it myself!

 

So, I went to training, read everything I could find, and started to work our way back to the methods of scouting.

 

What a long year it's been. Yes, we used the "troop method" during the year. Early on, we had to do whatever we could just to go camping every month. If that meant we only took 3 scouts, then they were the patrol.

 

A couple of the "trouble makers" transferred to another troop just after I became SM. Got a couple of new guys during the year and our attendance began to pick up.

 

We held troop elections and SPL, ASPL and PL were elected. These guys (I like to call them my legacy Scouts - holdovers from the "old" days) really resisted me when I told them I expected them to DO SOMETHING. But, slowly, eventually, with training, coaching, cajoling, prodding, etc. etc., they started to take control.

 

Still, we only had one patrol on any campout and about half the time the SPL was usually whoever was the most senior scout on the trip.

 

Now, a little more than one year later, we've formed 2 patrols of 5 boys each. One patrol of the older guys and a couple younger, the other mostly younger guys.

 

We held a annual planning campout last August and have worked hard to follow through on their plans. I think they are getting to like the idea that they made the plans and the adults aren't changing them. So, because these are their plans, we are getting more participation.

 

Last month we went on our first campout with more than one patrol. We had an SPL and two 3-man patrols each with a PL. Would it have been easier to just have one patrol of 6? Yep, probably. But we're a small troop and we have to start somewhere.

 

They made their own menus, did their own shopping, cooked their own meals, cleanup up, packed their gear. They planned their activities - older scouts teaching the younger scouts (fire building, axe/knife handling and safety, and orienteering).

 

SPL did a good job wandering between patrols, checking on their progress, helping PLs when asked. Boys still think to ask me first when they have a problem. I had a lot of satisfaction in saying "go ask your patrol leader" and then just sit and watch.

 

Nothing was done efficiently. Nothing was done on my timetable. Nothing was done the way I would do it. But they were leading. They were working together. They were learning.

 

And, THEY HAD FUN!

 

Now, we are at about 90% participation at meetings and outings. We only have 11 Scouts, but they are a fantastic, enthusiastic and hard working 11.

 

So, I guess my point is that I can certainly understand why some folks have to make "virtual" patrols from time to time. For a while, in our case anyway, it was a necessity. But, I can also say from my own admittedly limited experience, that when you get a group of boys together that know they are a unit and must rely on each other and work together, magic can happen.

 

 

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[CNYScouter]

With all due respect CNYS, if the troop is only seeing 20% participation at monthly activities, there are probably bigger issues than adherence to the Patrol Method.

 

...and this is better than the troop we left.

 

I know that other issues are coming into play on low participation, besides the patrol method, but I think that the patrol method (or the lack of) plays the major role.

 

Again, I have tried to bring this up as something the Troop should be thinking about but it just gets swept aside with "its not our program, its just kids are busy with other things", end of discussion.

 

Every Troop I looked at, when I decided to switch Troops, had participation numbers like these and all used the "virtual" patrol concept on a regular basis. In fact, the only ones who didn't use it were the small Troops that had only patrol.

 

gwd-scouter

Congrats on making things happen and finding out the patrol methos does work if the time is taken to learn the BSA program and making an effort to implement it.

 

I won't expect a Troop to switch "Cold Turkey" to the patrol method and it would need to be phased slowly in.

 

I took the time to seek out and visit Troops in my council that were using the patrol method as intended.

The two that I could find never had to use "virtual" patrols as they never had the situation with only 2 kids from a patrol going on an activity.

One of these Troops is the biggest in my district 50 scouts and its from one of the smallest commuities in the district.

The other Troop, I was told, was the biggest in the council 80 kids.

Neither of these Troops did any recruiting as their program did it for them.

 

I grew up in a Troop that used the patrol method and have seen it in action so I know it works.