Patrol & Troop equipment needs

[rkfrance]

We've been approached by our District to form a new Troop. We are starting from scratch for equipment. I'm looking for a MORE THAN COMPLETE list of equipment needs, for each Patrol (definitely 1, possibly 2), and anything separately for the Troop. Any ideas would be helpful. Also if suggestions could be separated by NECESSARY vs WISH LIST. I've spoken with other Troop leaders in the district for ideas.

[cag24]

What about the Scouts developing this list based on a budget and doing some shopping for the items they require? It would seem to me that this would be a great opportunity to get things started towards developing strong youth leadership and patrol spirit.

[Eamonn]

Congratulations on starting a new unit.

Some years back when I was serving as CM we talked about starting a Troop. In fact it would have been a re-start, as there had at one time been a Troop. It had gone about ten years before.

In the end it didn't happen on my watch, but did start a couple of years later.

Needless to say funding and money played a big part in what equipment was selected and bought.

Most units tend to buy the stuff they need as they need it and can afford it.

Different Troops have different ideas about what equipment a Scout needs. Some Troops in our area don't own any tents, they rely on Scouts bringing their own.

While I do see how this saves a lot of money. I'm not very keen on the idea. A lot of Scouts buy real junk which just doesn't work that well.

Different Scouter's have different ideas about brands and makes of equipment.

Anyway here's the start of a list. I'll add more as more comes to me.

Troop List:

American Flag:

-Talk to the elected officials in your area our guys love to hand out flags to Scout groups. Try and go for the photo op. It lets the community know that you have started.

Flag Set:

Troop Flag and American Flag with poles and toppers, along with stands. I don't know why? But for some reason people like the idea of donating the Troop Flag.You can do without one and they are not cheap. Our new flag for the Ship cost over $130.00 A member of our CO paid for it. The CO paid for the American Flag and the poles. As yet we haven't bought the brass toppers and we made the stands.

Rope:

You can never have enough good quality rope. Make sure that you fuse or whip or splice the ends before you use it or let the Scouts use it.

We got a lot donated from the local power company and have a promise of a donation from our local caverns where they also teach rappelling. E-bay is a great place to buy rope, but shipping costs are high.

Books:

Starting a Troop library with books for the adults and the Scouts is a good idea. Most adults will want to buy their own copies the handbooks that they use.

Administration Materials:

Our council gave us a copy of Troopmaster 2005. I really like it. But I have kept the records and that sort of thing in a three ring binder.

Game Bag:

This took on a life of its own!! It just kept growing. In the bag we had different balls, bean bags, boxing gloves,old neckerchiefs. all sorts of odds and ends. We could use the stuff for games at the troop meetings and if it seemed that the Troop meeting wasn't going to plan the SPL could dive in and come up with something at little or no notice. There were a lot of times when this bag and the stuff saved the day.

First Aid Kit.

I use a fishing tackle box.

Patrol Equipment.

We had two boxes per patrol one was the Patrol Camp Box and the other was the Patrol Box.

The Patrol Box was the box the Patrol used at meetings. It lived on the Patrol Table during meetings. Inside it had a copy of the handbook. You know that someone is going to forget his.

Paper and pencils. Maps and compasses, rope!! The idea was that when the patrol went to their Patrol corner to work on something they had what they needed and didn't spent half the time looking for it. We did periodic inspections of the Patrol Boxes, things seemed to have a habit of getting stuffed in there at the end of the night. So depending on what you have been working on it ends up in their box. It was normal to find extra compasses or triangular bandages in the Patrol Boxes.

Eamonn.

[SR540Beaver]

rkfrance,

 

Cag24 (welcome to the forums) makes a good point. However, if you are starting a new troop, I suspect that you are talking about new recruits rather than experienced scouts. The new boys need to be involved in the process, but may not have the experience needed to make the proper choices. I speak from experience because I helped to start a troop with about 8 Webelos in June 2005.

 

Here is what you will NEED or each patrol to begin with. A stove, a lantern, a 20 lbs propane bottle, a distribution tree and a gas hose. A food box, an ice chest, a couple of water containers, cookware and cooking utensils and some sort of box to put them in. You'll also need some sort of tubs to do dishes in. You'll need a dining fly or an EZ-Up in case of rain.

 

Once you become more established, you may want to add more gear. One or two dutch ovens, a charcoal chimney, tents, a table, a trash can, a turkey cooker for heating cleaning water, tarps, cups, plates and eating utensils.

 

Every troop is different in what they decide to provide. I've been with two troops that did not provide tents and one that does. If the troop can afford it, it sure takes a financial burden off of the boy and his family and makes for a nice looking uniform campsite. I've been with troops that use EZ-Ups for patrol cooking and a troops that uses dining flys. The EZ-Up earns it's name since it can be deployed and staked in about a minutes time. Tarps can be attached to any or all of the four sides to block the wind. They can be elevated high enough to walk under easily. A dining fly gets the job done and reinforces learning and using knots, but takes longer to set up and can't have tarps attached to block the wind. I've been with troops that had plates and cups and with others that require you to supply your own.

 

Start with the neccesities. What do you need to "survive" a weekend in the "wilds". Shelter, "fire" for cooking, light for the dark, protected food and a way to cook it. You can start out with buying cheap plastic Wal-Mart tarps for dining flys. You can scour garage sales for odds and ends pots and pans. You can use a large Rubbermaid container for a check box. You can survive with flashlights instead of a lantern if you have to. Simply think about what you NEED and what kind of comforts you want that you can do cheaply without geeting locked into. As time goes by, your experience and observation of other troops at things like Camporees will give you and your boys ideas for how they want to organize and supply themselves.

 

Good luck!!! Our experiment lasted for just over a year before we decided to shut it down and found larger troops with older boys for our scouts to integrate into. New troops from scratch are hard to get rolling, but not impossible.

[SR540Beaver]

My buddy Eamonn and I seem to make a good tag team. I addressed more of the patrol side while he concentrated more on the troop side. I concur with what he has listed. I too, will attempt to add to the list as I think of things.

[CA_Scouter]

In addressing camping needs, I'm more of the mindset that less is better. When my son and I joined our troop, they had some awesome campers. We had EZups, dutch ovens, 20 lb propane bottles, stoves, lanterns, patrol boxes, etc... Heck the SM had a 3 burner propane stove, complete with cast iron cookware and a grill that could cook a side of beef had he chosen to do so. Absolutely awesome.

 

However, we also had to take 3-4 trucks, roof racks, and a trailer now and then to transport all the equipment and... oh yeah! The Scouts! All 12 of 'em. Talk about OVERKILL! I call this 'seige camping'.

 

I have been encourging more backcountry trips for our troop, so we are in the process of procuring more lightweight stoves and cooking equipment, and we are teaching the scouts more low impact techniques. Now we use half the vehicles we used to, we are quick to set up camp and take it down, and we teach these scouts how to get by with less, to be innovative and to adapt to the conditions.

 

Now we hike to most of our destinations, see more of the natural wonders in our area, and we don't have to deal with getting all our campsites together, drunk campers, or shsssing the kids all the time. Its been a pretty good decision all around...

 

Yea, we still do a couple of 'seige' campouts every year, but we seem to enjoy the solitude of getting away from the public campgrounds more.

 

Just something to consider...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rkfrance]

Thanks for the input so far.

 

We will have a combination of cross-over Webelos and several experienced Boy Scouts plus we are expecting to have a Spring roundup. (We have several very unhappy parents of Scouts from the Troop our Pack feeds (will be transferring). (Too many issue there, and that's not on topic).)

 

I'm looking for input from those more experienced in this area. I'm not going shopping tomorrow, but I would like as many ideas as possible. Funding right now is going to be as we go. That's how we're going to have to get equipment. I just really need to know the priority of the equipment we will need.

[Kudu]

The next time I start a Troop from scratch, especially if it is only one Patrol, I will try the lightweight equipment approach.

 

This method of camping is the opposite of car camping with all the heavy Patrol boxes and 20lb propane tanks. Scouts learn to cook on backpacking stoves and to pack what they need in backpacks, even if they are not hiking more than a few hundred yards. When trained in this method from the very beginning, Scouts find it a lot more natural to just put their packs on and march into the woods.

 

An article on lightweight Troop equipment can be found at:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/lightweight_camping.htm

 

Lightweight cooking at:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/skills/cooking/lightweight.htm

 

Currently I serve a car-camping Troop.

 

We use those generic $4 storage containers which are about nine times cheaper than Rubbermaid "Actionpackers," and they have the advantage of coming in many different colors, so each Patrol has its own color. Our oldest containers are about six years old now and haven't cracked yet, even in the winter. To keep raccoons out, we place the containers with the food under the ones with the equipment. Stacked two-high they make really good food preparation counters.

 

Each Patrol has its own Troop Quartermaster who ideally removes all of the contents from these storage containers ideally before each campout, and ideally checks off on the "Troop Quartermaster Patrol Equipment Checklist" what equipment they need:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/quartermaster.htm

 

In practice they usually lug more stuff than they need :-/

 

Kudu

[FScouter]

For what reasons would the district approach you about starting a new troop with as few as 1 or 2 patrols?? Why cannot these boys join existing troops/

[Eamonn]

As you can see we all have different ideas when it comes to camping and what equipment you might want to buy.

I'm not going to say one is better than the other. I in fact think that a mix of the two is the way to go. But that's just me.

In the past we normally set up camp as a Troop with the patrols camping and cooking as Patrols and then had Scouts go off hiking, biking or whatever from there.

The Patrols cooked on the Coleman type double burner stove,along with a wood fire,they used their own Patrol Cook Box and bigger tents. The guys going hiking took light-weight camping gear.

But we used to have a two week Troop summer camp.

If you go to the Coleman web site you can sign up as a youth organization and get some stuff at a good price.

While I know we might disagree on a lot of things I think almost everyone would tell you to buy the best quality equipment that you can afford.

Eamonn.

[Kudu]

While I know we might disagree on a lot of things I think almost everyone would tell you to buy the best quality equipment that you can afford.

 

Try first to get it for free. One advantage of car camping is that many people have basements and attics full of heavy camping gear that they never use. Consider submitting to your church's weekly bulletin (and the bulletin-board where you work, and all of the other venues that you can think of) requests for old Coleman stoves & lanterns, sleeping bags, tarps, small tents, winter clothing, hiking boots, pots, pans, and cast iron cookware. Be sure to ask for food dehydrators, which are very useful for making your own backpacking food for Cooking Merit Badge. The more specific you are about what you want, the more you will get.

 

Coleman equipment that does not work can usually be easily fixed with an inexpensive replacement fuel generator.

 

Avoid family-sized tents like the plague. Donate them to a local charity.

 

Be sure to mention receipts for these donated goods. Spend a little time designing a graphically pleasing receipt from generic Scouting clip art, see:

 

http://clipart.usscouts.org/

 

Whenever we distributed flyers for other Troop fund-raisers, we would head at least one paragraph with wording like, "Only 262 days left to donate your attic full of old camping gear to a worthy cause in time for next year's taxes" :-)

 

Oh, I forgot to mention backpacks. These are especially important if you decide to adopt a lightweight equipment approach to Troop Equipment, see:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/equipment/lightweight_camping.htm

 

If you ask for them, you may get some for free. I also went to the local distribution centers for the various local charity "thrift stores" and left my name as a buyer of backpacks and Scout Uniforms.

 

The most successful way of obtaining used backpacks, however, is to join local outdoor clubs. Stand up in meetings, tell them who you are, and that you are interested in purchasing old backpacks and other lightweight camping equipment.

 

The going rate for a 1970s backpack in usable condition is $10-20. Be sure to replace the original waist belt with modern 2" webbing & buckle.

 

Every hiker has old equipment.

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[Greying Beaver]

Something else to consider: a fundraiser as soon as possible. Talk to the local WalMart. They have monies budgeted for youth groups to do carwashes on the WalMart parking lot. You will need to provide your own hoses, buckets, soap, towels, etc. The WalMarts in our part of the swamp have a $1,000.00 limit. By thatI mean that they will donate the difference between what you take in and $1k giving your group a thousand dollars. You make $800.00; they donate $200.00. Ta-Da!

The fundraisers that are advertized in BL and Scouter are great, but the lag time in getting the materials is too long. You need the money a.s.a.p.

And from that initial money, set and keep a budget. Here is where garage-sale-ing is great. Set dues amout as soon as possible and get the money collected for the quarter quickly. You need the influx of cash now.

Then there is the pricless stuff - all of the adult leaders go get trained. and have the "next generation" leaders do the same.

Go to RoundTable, intorduce yourself to the SM's and ask if they have any useable older camping equipment that they would like to doante. And don't be afraid to make an appeal to the Chartering Organization either. It is, afterall, their unit, and they should want it to succeed, . . . right? If the C.O. is a church, make an appeal to the congregation. Betcha you'll see tons of camping gear come being hauled out of atticks and garages. Scout Sunday is just around the corner. Make arrangements with the church treasurer to have the offering diverted to the new troop (or a portion of it), or a special offering going tothe troop.

The second rule of being lost: "When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, sing and shout."

 

[SWScouter]

The troop I was in had a minimum of equipment. I'm sure there was more than I can remember, but I'll list what I can. I joined in Spring '71 so this was close to 35 years ago. I do think it is a good list and goes with some of the things that CA_Scouter & Kudu mentioned.

 

- American Flag

- Troop Flag

- various merit badge pamphlets

- First Aid kit

- Cooking pot sets for each patrol plus spare. These were light for backpacking

- Sets of cooking utinsels, one per patrol plus spare.

- backpacking stove per patrol plus spare

- tent halves (these were army surplus and canvas. We never used them for backpacking, each scout brought a 10x10 sheet of plastic then)

 

There may have been dining flies but I don't remember them. If we had them they would have been heavy canvas and not seen much use.

 

The troop was based midway between Seattle and Tacoma, WA and the weather was quite often wet. We did a lot of camping in the Cascades and did fine with just that 10x10 piece of plastic and a poncho for cover. Of course, a lot of us used gators to keep our lower legs dry and it seemed like we never had enough mink oil or sno-seal for the boots.

 

I should mention that none of the equipment was assigned to a patrol when I was a member. Each campout, the Quartermaster checked out the equipment to patrols/members as needed. There were no patrol boxes or anything like that. We met for the outing, packed the gear in our backpacks, packed the backpacks in the cars, and left.

 

The only other thing I remember the troop having was a bunch of snow shoes. The troop bought them while I was a scout and rented them out to other troops.

 

In my opinion, scouts are fine and happy with a minimal list like above. I think it is the adults that think all kinds of equipment is needed and are the cause of the "seige camping" method. I do admit it can be awfully nice to have that lounge chair to sit on instead of a log or the ground.

 

SWScouter

[FScouter]

"Only 262 days left to donate your attic full of old camping gear to a worthy cause in time for next year's taxes" :-)

 

A troop is not a charity and donations are not tax deductible.

[Kudu]

A Troop is not an independent legal entity. As commonly understood, the Troop's equipment is owned by the Sponsoring Organization (SO), so the status of a contribution depends on the SO's status with the IRS.

 

At least as commonly understood. I once heard of a situation where a church decided to pull out of the local BSA Council and run its own outdoor program. Supposedly the Council showed up at the church one day with a truck and a court order to take possession of the Troop's equipment, citing a provision in the BSA's "secret" rules and regulations.

 

Kudu