I need some advice

[scout-parent]

Here are some answers to questions posed by Aquila calva.

 

Until the deposed leadership was forced to join the venture patrol, no venture patrol existed within the troop. There are two ASM's neither of which has been assigned to the venture patrol, as of yet. One is a NYC fireman and I'm guessing from his size, athletic ability and profession, he's the one who's cut out for high adventure.

 

Three kids made eagle last year and the troop average was about one every year. So, there have been 21 eagles since 1993. The thing about this is that each and every project has been a PROJECT. No tidying up an area and slapping on a coat of paint. Mostly building projects. It was very hard to make eagle, which added to the allure of making eagle in this troop.

 

I'm not sure how many Webelos are in the pipeline. It's usually a low of 3 to a high of 10.

 

As you know, my son was proposing to speak at a council meeting he requested be held before the next scheduled meeting in January. The CC asked him to send an agenda about what he wanted to speak about. My son sent the agenda and a few days later got this message;

 

I will review items 2 through 5 with you on Wednesday. None of these items warrant an emergency meeting. I must state I am surprised to see that items 3 through 5 appear to place all blame on adult leaders and no improvements are suggested of the scouts. Regardless I will review these items with you and address how these items are handled or what stages they are in.

Mr. CC

 

Below it the agenda he sent. I don't see blame being assigned. Am I to close to the forest to see the trees? Does this agenda seem to be assigning blame? Perhaps some of you who are more detached from the situation can comment.

 

Agenda For Troop 5 Emergency Committee Meeting

 

1- Address what has happened within the troop thus far so that the parents understand why we are calling the meeting and offering suggestions to help fix the troop.

 

2- Discuss what a Venture Patrol is as it is a relatively new concept to the parents in our Troop, also a good opportunity to recruit new members for a Venture Patrol.

 

3- Develop a forum in which everyone can speak about the camp outs, whether it be in person with the adults or on the website, checked by adults periodically (we know that people can post messages there but there should be a place set aside to specifically address what happened on the camp outs so that adult leaders dont only act with only one side of a story.

 

4- Get a complaint system set up so that if parents have complaints it will not only be told to the adult leaders but the boy leaders will also be made aware of them.

 

5- Propose that the troop develop by-laws or a constitution so that there will be no more miscommunication as to how things are done when changing leadership, (yes the concept is addressed in scouting doctrine however troops adopt these concepts in different ways and it would help everyone understand how things are run in Troop 5. END of AGENDA

 

Thanks for all the comments, they've been very helpful and I appreciate the time you've all taken to address my issues.

 

 

[scout-parent]

The new SPL elections were held on Wednesday. The SM said that there were two qualified scouts and one didn't want the position, so in effect he picked the winner. My son raised his hand and said he wanted to run and was told he couldn't. It's nice to see that he still thought it was about a fair election. Being 16, I guess you don't understand the underlying politics and the way the world works. It's a sad thing that it was boy scouts that took away the childlike view of the world.

 

Does anyone know if he can change troops after his Eagle proposal has been signed and the ok has been given to begin work on the project? Do you need to finish with the same troop/SM that signed the proposal?

 

The PL's that were elected were my son for the venture patrol and the two scouts that climbed down the cliff. Because the SM didn't know these kids were missing and now they are in charge, my wife has safety issues with the troop. She doesn't want my younger son (first class) to be in the patrol with these kids as the leaders. She's worried that they can't show good judgment for themselves, how can they watch out for my son? The adults don't seem to be watching either. My younger son can't get a leadership position because the SM says he's too immature and it will be years before he gets one. Well, that's another topic for another day.

 

We really want to move both kids, but the older guy doesn't want to jeopardize his eagle.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Aquila calva]

Congratulations to your son on being elected patrol leader of his venture patrol. He can help plan some fun activities for himself and his friends. Has he set a date for his Eagle project yet? He will want to start recruiting helpers now, so they can put the project on their family calendars. Has he finished all his merit badges for Eagle? He will want to work on those, too. And then there are those required letters of recommendation that need to be gathered.

 

Remember the variation on the old saying

 

If youre going to put all your eggs in one basketwatch that basket!

 

Joining a Boy Scout Troop is basically putting all your eggs in one basketso to speak. Your son has invested a lot of time and energy in scouting and in this troop and he is rightly focusing on the Eagle goal. He can certainly join another troop, but there is no guarantee it will be better than the one he is in. (You can talk to the District Advancement Chair with your questions.) And then, there are the questions about his friends in the troop and what they will do. Can all the members of the troop help make the troop better? Cooperation is better than confrontation, almost always. This troop sounds like it has a lot of good things going for it. Yes, there are some major challenges. Of course, life is full of challenges. The challenges are falling heavily on a few older scouts and their families right now.

 

It is OK to put all your eggs in one basket. Just watch that basket.

 

Have fun scouting.

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Well, this hints at some more information from another perspective.

 

"there should be a place set aside to specifically address what happened on the camp outs so that adult leaders dont only act with only one side of a story....if parents have complaints it will not only be told to the adult leaders..."

 

So apparently there were complaints about the behavior of some of the PLC members which were lodged with the SM. Those complaints came not just from kids, but from parents. From previous postings, they may also have come from one or more ASMs.

 

The CC's comment also seems to suggest that there were (youth) behavioral issues that have not been acknowledged.

 

Me thinks you are best to take a deep breath, step back, and imagine what you would want to have happen if you and several other parents called the SM with complaints about the behavior of a group of older boys. The other side of this story has some weight that can't be discounted.

 

Disputes and confusion like this often happen when the adult troop leadership isn't adept at establishing and maintaining behavioral norms in general, which is often the case with volunteer parents. Small steps aren't taken, so things fester until a "big step" feels necessary. In such cases, honor and compassion usually suggests that you support your volunteers who are really trying to do their best.

[Aquila calva]

Safety.

 

Troop has an ASM who is a New York City firefighter! What a resource!

 

Sounds like a chance to have some troop training on safety, rescue, and all the great equipment used. The scouts will love it.

 

Embrace opportunity.

 

Life is full of choices.

 

Have fun scouting.

[eagle97_78]

I have been reading the advice that everyone has given you. I work on the District Committee for my District. The District Committee cannot step in unitil asked by the CO. One person that you should have went to first on the District level was the Unit Commissioner, he is their to make sure that the troop is running properly and if it isn't he tells the unit what they need to work on changing.

 

As for the 20+ year scoutmaster. We have found that most of these Scoutmasters haven't been through any of the new trainings and they truly need to go. The new leadership training tells us that the scoutmaster is there as an adviser. He is there to make sure everybody is having fun and being safe, most of all he is there to make sure that program is running properly. He doesn't step in if the PLC is handling the problem he is there to advise the PLC how to handle the problem and if and only if they say that they cannot handle the problem then he steps in. The troop is boy run, the boys make all the decisions and then the committe must approve the boys decisions they have the final say. The Scoutmaster really has no power to do anything without the approval of the committee.

 

I do believe that the CO head should be brought in on this situation to make the final decision. They have all power and have the final say of what to do. They can ask the district committee for help and then the district can come in and help out, but only then can the help. I hope that things work out and keep on Scouting.

[scout-parent]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to give you an update on what happened.

 

My son decided to leave the original troop and move to a very small (15 kids) and very young (ages 12-14 most kids) troop. It's worked out pretty well for everyone. The new troop was trying to figure out how to do the patrol method and my son showed them how. He became the "unofficial troop leader" showing the SPL, ASPL and PL's what should be done and how to do it. The scoutmaster has listened to his advice both good things that were being done and things that needed to be modified. All in all mutual respect between my son and the SM.

 

My son has finished his eagle project, done the write up and just needs one signature on his application. It worked out well having the young kids work on an eagle project and see what needed to be done and how to get it done.

 

I'm still not too happy about all that transpired, but I'm happy that my son was able to push through the bad parts and still go toward his goal of eagle and most of all that he didn't quit scouting. I think he learned a lot. With any luck he'll get his paperwork in by the end of the month and that will give him 10 months til he turns 18. So he's looking good barring any unforseen things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aquila calva]

Thanks for the update on your son's progress toward Eagle. It sounds like he is using his leadership skills in constructive ways. Once he passes his Eagle Board of Review he may have enough time (before his 18th birthday) to earn an Eagle palm or maybe two. He just needs five additional merit badges for each, and three months of service to his unit for each palm.

 

Once he earns Eagle, it will be an accomplishment he will hold close to his heart for the rest of his life. And nobody can take it away from him. The challenges will fade, the success will remain.

 

Keep us posted on his progress. There are folks here hoping for his continued success.

[Vicki]

Thanks for the update. What happened with your younger son - you were worried about safety issues vis-a-vis the misbehaving scouts who became patrol leaders?

 

Vicki

[scout-parent]

My younger son also moved to the new troop along with his brother. The new troop is working out well for him as well. He was elected patrol leader, something he wasn't allowed to do in the old troop. He just came back from summer camp where he earned 4 eagle required merit badges. He's finished his Star requirements and just needs a SM conf. and a board of review. He'll be 14 in August, so if he wants to be an eagle, he'll be in good shape. All in all the move to the new troop has benefited both boys and the new troop as well. Thanks for asking.