How to Teach the Patrol Method to Scouts and Adults

[Kudu]

SR540Beaver writes:

 

You could go to a council property as a troop and drop patrols in different campsites as far away from each other as possible.

 

ozemu writes:

 

Troop camps are always done as separate Patrols all in the one rough area. Distance from the adult camp depends on space available and Scouts abilities.

 

Two excellent posts appear in the Adult-Free Campouts thread that should be read by all Scouters, even those who would never in their wildest dreams allow Scouts to camp without adult supervision.

 

Physically separating Patrols is the answer to the perennial question of how to teach the Patrol Method to both Scouts and adults!

 

Another resource is William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol." This is a six month Patrol Leader Training (PLT) course which is different from Junior Leader Training (JLT) in that it teaches Patrol Leaders how to be Patrol Leaders, rather than teaching them abstract managerial skills.

 

The Green Bar Patrol is a training Patrol in which the Scoutmaster is Patrol Leader, and the Patrol Leaders are Patrol members. The Patrol meets once a month for six months and teaches Patrol Leaders by actually doing everything from making a Patrol Flag and conducting a Patrol Meeting, to planning and taking a Patrol Hike and a Patrol Campout.

 

See:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar

 

See also the Gilwell PLT training course:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/gilwell

 

Kudu

 

[orennoah]

To add to the above:

 

While not sanctioned by the BSA and not official and a clear violation of uniforming rules and regulations, our troop formed the adults into a "patrol." We are the Grumps. We have a patrol flag, patrol cheer and patrol patch.

 

The idea is twofold.

 

We function as a demonstration patrol. We have a patrol duty roster, patrol menu, patrol food and camp in a separate patrol campsite. Scouts can learn parts of the patrol method simply by seeing us operate as a patrol.

 

More insidiously, the Grump patrol teaches the patrol method to new adults and it keeps new adults physically and mentally separated from their sons. A doting parent simply doesn't have the time or ability to dote when they're cooking the Grump dinner.

[dan]

Sepearting patrols by area is a good idea, but I do not think it has much to do with the patrol method. I look at the patrol method more as teaching the patrol leader to lead. Making the patrol leader responisble for: keeping his patrol informed, on track, and watching out for them, making sure that the PLC has activites planned to help with his patrols advancments and to make sure his patrol is having fun.

Teaching the patrol leader to interact with the SPL ASPL and other PL.

(This message has been edited by dan)

[Kudu]

I look at the patrol method more as teaching the patrol leader to lead. Making the patrol leader responsible for: keeping his patrol informed, on track, and watching out for them, making sure that the PLC has activities planned to help with his patrols advancements and to make sure his patrol is having fun. Teaching the patrol leader to interact with the SPL ASPL and other PL.

 

I believe that you are thinking of "Leadership Development." Most of these abstract leadership skills were a subset of the Patrol Method until Hillcourt's Methods of Scouting were "modernized" in the early 1970s. At that time "Boy Leadership" was removed from what Traditional Scouters consider to be its proper position as a subset of the Patrol Method and became a separate method called "Leadership Development."

 

btw, ASPLs should not be in the chain of command over Patrol Leaders.

 

For an outline history of the Methods of Scouting, see:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods

 

Kudu

[dan]

Are you saying that if a troop separates patrols during outings that is all there is to the patrol method?

And what I wrote has nothing to do with the patrol method?

 

 

btw I never said the ASPL where in command over the PL, just that there should be some interactions between them during the PLC meetings. Since the ASPL should be directing the troop instructors.

[AvidSM]

I know that due to attrition, teaching the patrol method to scouts is like painting a moving bus. But, as a Scouter, you must continue to provide the boys with leadership opportunities and stress the basics at every turn.

 

I have heard of other units forming a "Grumps" patrol as Orennoah mentioned. The problem is you get adults acting like boys, which goes against one of the methods of the program (you lose this method with adult-fee camping also). And, you may not want or get a patrol size number of adults at each campout.

 

Separating the patrol's cooking and camping areas at campouts certainly forces the boys to use the patrol method. But you need to do more than this.

 

You must give every opportunity at campouts and meetings for the patrols to act independently. The more time they spend as a group, making decisions and meeting challenges, the more their PL will learn to lead and the more the scouts will learn to follow. This is one of the main reasons why we have the patrol method. The other is that the boys work much better in smaller sub-groups.

 

At meetings, the interpatrol activity is one of the best ways to teach the patrol method. Have each patrol compete against the others in a game or contest. Try to incorporate the monthy theme into the activity. If the theme is tracking, come up with some kind of tracking contest. Have one patrol leave trail signs or clues so the another patrol can try to find it outside or within the building.

 

Teaching the patrol method is an ongoing effort. Our Troop votes in their Patrol Leaders every six months, so Kudu's Green Bar Patrol is not viable. As soon as one Patrol Leader is trained, another might replace him!

 

Troop Leader Training is a good opportunity for the boys to formally learn what the job of Patrol Leader is. I open this training any boy that might be interested in a leadership position, not just the leaders. This way, a newly elected leader can have had the training in advance.

 

Most importantly, none of this works unless you let the boys make the decisions and really do the leading.

[Kudu]

Are you saying that if a troop separates patrols during outings that is all there is to the patrol method?

 

If a Scoutmaster only does one thing to promote the Patrol Method, that would be the most important. If the Patrols are separated, then at least some form of the Patrol Method is occurring.

 

And what I wrote has nothing to do with the patrol method?

 

For the sake of discussion, I will take that extreme position :-/

 

Remember that you wrote, "Separating patrols by area is a good idea, but I do not think it has much to do with the patrol method. I look at the patrol method more as teaching the patrol leader to lead."

 

In general, the Leadership Development Method was established at the expense of the Patrol Method. So it only adds insult to injury to describe the Patrol Method using leadership terminology.

 

Patrols should be described by what Patrols do. All too often the Patrol Method is viewed as a "leadership opportunity." I would even go so far as to suggest that frequent Patrol elections are driven more by the need to fill Position of Responsibility (POR) advancement requirements than by the need for stable Patrols.

 

When William Hillcourt invented the "Methods of Scouting," boy leadership was a subset of the Patrol Method: a skill you needed to run a Patrol. When "progressive" forces dismantled Hillcourt's traditional Scouting program in the early 1970s, they did away with two of the Methods of Scouting, The Uniform and The Scout Way, and greatly de-emphasized the Outdoor Method. At this time they established "Leadership Development" as a separate Method. This meant eliminating Patrol Leader Training (PLT) and replacing it with abstract leadership skills (JLT) that every Scout could use.

 

The following statement is typical: "In general, Patrol Leader training should concentrate on leadership skills rather than on Scoutcraft Skills. The Patrol will not rise and fall on the Patrol Leader's ability to cook, follow a map, or do first aid, but it very definitely depends on his leadership skill."

 

I'd say that is exactly wrong :-/

 

Kudu(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[AvidSM]

I would rather have a Patrol Leader who knows what his job is than one who is a good cook and an excellent map reader. I would want him to represent all the scouts in his patrol at a PLC. When the SPL makes a decision, I would like each PL to follow though with it down to the scout level.

 

Doing the things that the majority of the boys want to do is essential to a good program and scout retention. If the SPL's decisions are not passed down to the boys, he is not really leading the troop.

 

Program sucess, retention and developing good leaders are much more important than having a troop full of good cooks and map readers.

Leadership is key in a troop. The BSA knows that and changed the focus of Wood Badge for that reason

 

Leaders turn good ideas into reality.

[Beavah]

Nah, I vote with Kudo.

 

Unless a boy knows basic scoutcraft skill well, he can't be a good leader in a scouting environment.

 

He doesn't understand enough to make a good decision at the PLC. He isn't capable of implementing the SPL's decisions within his patrol. He can't earn the respect of his patrol members and peers.

 

Program success and retention depend more on good cooks and map readers than they do on some adult-abstract notion of elected representation. At best, such higher functions as effective representation come into play only a long time after the basics (like having a good meal in the rainstorm) are taken care of.

[OldGreyEagle]

How can you have a patrol leader who is not solid in scoutcraft skills? Are these skills not reinforced by doing and teaching them? If you have scouts who are weak in scoutcraft skills, address your program. I think the scoutcraft skills are a given.

[Kudu]

Leadership is key in a troop. The BSA knows that and changed the focus of Wood Badge for that reason.

 

Yes, the 1970s "11 Leadership Skills" Wood Badge was about leadership, 21st Century "Seven Minute Manager" Wood Badge is about leadership, JLT is about leadership, and I'm sure that the new JLT is about, um, leadership.

 

I think we can all agree that the BSA has the "Leadership Development Method" covered. But what can we do to teach the "Patrol Method"?

 

I haven't used the "Grumps method". Our adults usually look over the menus of the different Patrols, and plan to eat with the Patrol offering the best food :-) I'm sure that the Grumps Patrol can be done without the adults acting like boys, and if there are enough adults to form a "full" Patrol, at least this keeps them out of the way :-)

 

The interesting thing about orennoah's "Grumps" method is that it models the behavior he wants the Scouts' Patrols to exhibit. Copying someone else's actions is always the most efficient way to train. This is the key to Hillcourt's Green Bar Patrol as well: as Patrol Leader the Scoutmaster models the behavior that the Scout Patrol Leaders will need when they 1) hold Patrol Meetings, 2) conduct Advancement within the Patrol, 3) plan and implement Patrol Hikes, 4) lead a Patrol Campout, 5) lead new Scoutcraft games and "fun" games, and 6) conduct all of the miscellaneous house-keeping activities necessary in more traditional Patrols. Rather than coaching from the sidelines, the Scoutmaster actually leads the Green Bar Patrol in these activities.

 

> Our Troop votes in their Patrol Leaders every six months, so

> Kudu's Green Bar Patrol is not viable. As soon as one Patrol

> Leader is trained, another might replace him!

 

Even if a Troop sacrifices the Patrol Method to the Leadership Development Method by imposing "term limits" of only one six month Patrol Leader "leadership opportunity," the Green Bar Patrol will provide specific instruction for five of the seven requirements for earning the National Honor Patrol (a pretty good indication that you are using the Patrol Method) within this six month structure:

 

HAVE A PATROL NAME, FLAG, AND YELL. Put your patrol design on equipment and use your patrol yell. Keep patrol records up to date: Covered in the first meeting.

HOLD TWO PATROL MEETINGS EVERY MONTH: Covered in the second month's meeting, with additional instruction in the fifth meeting.

TAKE PART IN AT LEAST ONE HIKE, OUTDOOR ACTIVITY, OR OTHER SCOUTING EVENT: Covered in the third month's meeting.

HELP TWO PATROL MEMBERS ADVANCE ONE RANK: Covered in the fourth month's meeting.

HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE ATTEND AT LEAST THREE PATROL LEADERS' COUNCIL MEETINGS: Covered by the third month.

 

See:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar

 

Troop Leader Training is a good opportunity for the boys to formally learn what the job of Patrol Leader is.

 

What do you actually teach (in addition to leadership skills)?

 

When the SPL makes a decision, I would like each PL to follow though with it down to the scout level...If the SPL's decisions are not passed down to the boys, he is not really leading the troop.

 

I agree, but I would quibble over the idea of "SPL decisions." In William Hillcourt's Patrol Method, the SPL was elected by the Patrol Leaders. I keep the spirit of this practice alive by announcing at the first PLC meeting after every election that the PLC is called the "Patrol Leaders' Council" for a reason. It is the Patrol Leaders' Council, not the SPL's Council or the Scoutmaster's Council. The SPL has a vote really only to break ties because the Patrol Leaders always outnumber him. The Troop Guide has a vote only to make sure that Tenderfoot through First Class Advancement issues are addressed. The Scoutmaster does not have a vote, and only vetoes unwise decisions. So really, the SPL only implements the Patrol Leaders' decisions.

 

Program success, retention and developing good leaders are much more important than having a troop full of good cooks and map readers.

 

Why not enroll them in business administration courses, and skip the mosquitoes? :-)

 

Kudu

 

[AvidSM]

The classroom is no place for a boy. Studies have shown that boys who are active - keeping their hands busy during lessons, are more attentive and retain more.

 

Scouting's classroom is the outdoors. There, he meets challenges not found at home or school and learns what works and what doesn't. He learns how to cook for himself and read a map. These are important skills every scout should know, no doubt.

 

What happends when the boys burn the pancakes or lose direction on a hike? Do we stop everything right there and review the skill until they get it right? Do we deem the campout a failure because of it?

 

Why does he need to be in scouting to learn these things? Couldn't the boy learn cooking in Home Ecomonics? Can't he participate in the DVOA and learn to read a map?

 

If you don't learn to cook in a home economics class you fail, because the purpose of the class is to teach you to cook. If you don't learn to cook in scouting, you haven't failed, because that's not the reason you are in scouting.

 

The boys are in Scouting to develop character, become responsible for themselves in both mind and body, and to become responsible for the actions of others. These are qualities which make good leaders.

 

Yes, teach the boys all the skills they need to know to advance and become a well rounded scout. But, never forget that the mechanism by which they learn these things is just a means to and end.

 

[LongHaul]

AvidSM,

     What do you do with your PLs after they have fulfilled their POR req.? If they can't do the "scouty" stuff what use are they to their patrol? How do they carry out the plan of the new PL if they cant do the scouty stuff. How can they lead patrol members that can't do the "scouty" stuff? They can't teach(properly),can't do (effectively), how can they lead except where the patrol really doesn't need them. If the patrol can do it all with out the PL's hands on help then all the Pl is is a messenger. He can assign tasks to those who can do them, he can delegate authority to those who can execute it, he can until he has to do for himself then he comes up short. The basic skills acquired in reaching First Class are indispensable in leading your patrol when doing the "scouty" stuff. Teach the "scouty" stuff first and reserve the "Leadership" training for when the boy is ready to assume a leadership role.

 Program success, retention and developing good leaders are much more important than having a troop full of good cooks and map readers. Just what kind of program are you trying to succeed with if cooking and map reading aren't a big part of it? You think you can retain more boys because meetings run smooth and the PL knows how to relay information and delegate? What happens when you get to the scOUT parts?

As to the changes in Woodbadge being because BSA saw the value of leadership to the unit, I'd have to ask "How long have you been involved in Scouting?" LongHaul

[AvidSM]

LongHaul,

 

I'm not saying don't teach the "scouty" stuff. How can you not teach it? They are skills needed to advance.

 

But nowhere does the BSA say that a boy cannot be elected patrol leader because he's bad cook or he's spacially challenged. Boys are elected because they are popular, friendly, well liked, etc. I have no control over this. I certianly can't cycle them through in order for all of them to get their POR. What kind of troop does that?

 

Each boy has their own strengths and weaknesses. As a leader, it's my job to focus on the positive and bring out the best in each boy. If a boy shown good leadership potential, why force him to be the best cook or map reader in the troop?

 

What do I do with my newly elected patrol leaders? I don't sit down with them an review the "scouty" stuff to see if they know it. I tell them what their job is. I go over what I expect of them as leaders. I encourage them to take the formal training the BSA offers both in the troop and the council. I watch over them as leaders and offer advice and guidance as needed. I provide them a "safe place" and allow them to make their mistakes so that they learn by them. THAT'S how I teach the patrol method.

 

All I'm saying that a good scouter should not place ALL of the emphasis on the "scouty" stuff and IGNORE the leadership development part. After all, when the boys grows up joins the workforce, which skills will serve him better?

 

As for Wood Badge...

I took the new course when it first came out and later had the honor of serving on staff. To answer your question, I havn't been in scouting long enough to have taken the old course. The knowledge of the old ways do not haunt me. So, I can't live in the past - and I certainly can't expect the boys to live in the past either.