Virtual Patrols during Campouts

[kenk]

I'm currently a Webelos Den Leader for boys who will be moving into Boy Scouts this coming February, so we have been going to a few activities with local troops, planning more activities for this fall, and talking with boys who are the troops.

 

During those activities/discussions I'm seeing/hearing two things that bother me, and I'm wondering if these are more common than I thought:

 

#1: The troops are medium-sized with maybe 20-50 boys, but because of other competing activities, only a relatively small number of boys go on any particular camping trip. For any given weekend these boys create what I think of as a virtual patrol, with the boys working together to cook meals and cleanup. I assume there are patrols at Troop Meetings, but haven't attended one yet - later this year we will.

 

From what I've seen the adults were heavily involved in the cooking & cleaning. It reminding me more of Cub Scouts.

 

#2: I heard from one of the boys that their relatively small troop only uses one very large tent (he said it was a 10-man tent), and everyone crams into that tent. I guess even if some boys bring their own tents they somehow fasten the tents together around the big tent to create "sleeping rooms". While it sounds interesting, it also sounds kind of odd to me. Is this commonplace?

 

As a youth I really enjoyed camping, cooking, and competing in troop activities with my patrol-mates, and sleeping two boys per tent in those wonderful canvas Voyager tents. I guess I pictured something more like that for my own boy.

[scoutingagain]

I confess we sometimes end up using the "virtual" patrol method in the unit I serve. It is for the sames reasons you cited in your post. While we have about 25 active scouts, on some outings there will be only one or two scouts from a particular patrol, so he/they joins up with one of the other patrols. Sometimes, due to conflicts, family commitments etc. we will have a relatively low turn out for an outing, say 6 - 8 scouts total. In that case, they will form a virtual patrol and act as one patrol for the outing, rather than 2 - 3 patrols of only 1-3 scouts each. The good news is, for the most part, these arrangements are worked out by the boys themselves. It would be nice though to have 4 - 5 patrols of 6-8 scouts each like in the good old days. The scouts do sleep 2 to a tent, with an occaisonal triple. I have not seen the general use of large family style tents in the units I'm familiar with.

 

SA

 

[Bob White]

These virtual partols are a horrible idea. A scout will never feel a sense of responsibility to his patrol if he knows that his absence doesn't make an difference in the success of the group.

 

But then adults cooking for scouts, and 10 boys to a tent are pretty bad ideas as well.

 

It sounds like you may need to look further to find a real scouting program.

 

Best of luck,

BW

 

[EagleInKY]

Like SA, we've had to do it from time-to-time. We have two patrols that each have 5-6 boys in them. On a couple of occasions they've grouped together. It's definitely the exception, though.

 

Sometimes we'll have special groupings due to the activity. For example, a couple of weeks ago we went camping where one group (mostly younger scouts) stayed in "base camp" and did a 5 mile hike. Most of the older guys went on a 15 mile backpacking overnighter. So, since it was a combination of boys from two patrols and the senior leadership, we acted as a "crew" with the SPL in charge.

[Venividi]

"but because of other competing activities, only a relatively small number of boys go on any particular camping trip"

 

This is a common problem. Some PLC's have set minimum participation requirements (emphasis on PLC decision, not adult decision). Some require that patrols stay with their patrol on campouts, even if only 2 scouts from the patrol attend. Frequently, it is as you state: virtual patrols, which makes it difficult for patrol leaders to lead, because it is never the same set of scouts, and the boys don't really see themselves as real patrols.

 

"Adults were heavily involved in the cooking & cleaning."

Ask questions as to why they do this - you will benefit in understanding what is behind this. There are good lessons being missed if adults are doing the cooking and cleaning. Sometimes, some troops have adults cook for special occasions, such as a campOree where the scouts are not trusted to be able to complete cooking and cleaning quickly enough to get back to the program on schedule. (I have a similar opinion of adults cooking at Summer Camp i.e. dining hall, but that is a whole 'nother topic, one in which my view is in the minority).

 

I personally prefer tents sized to accomodate 2 scouts. Our troop used to have several larger tents that would accomodate 3 or 4. Our experience was that with more than two scouts in a tent, there was a significant increase in lack of sleep. When the zippers failed on them, they were replaced with the smaller tents.

 

Sounds like you are doing the right thing in looking at and evaluating multiple troops. Capture these observations, and ask each troop about them.

 

I would recommend two things that would be valuable in helping you evaluate troops: 1) A description of each of the Aims & Methods. (can be found at meritbadge.com and other places). Use this check for indications that methods are being used to achieve aims, and not simply an end in themselves. 2) A copy of the Patrol Leader's Handbook. I found this at least as valuable as the Scoutmasters Handbook, perhaps more so, because it presents, in a simple manner, how patrols are supposed to operate. With this info, you can observe if troops attempts to teach the scouts consistent with BSA program.

[Bob White]

One solution to that situation that would allow you to retain the integrity of the patrol is to have (as the BSA program is designed) patrols made of scouts of similar ages and abilities. That would have allowed the entire patrol of older scouts to do the activity that was more appropriate to their abilities without the need to splinter the patrols.

[FScouter]

What are some of the reasons a patrol of 2 boys cannot function on a campout such that they must form a virtual patrol with others in order to be successful?

[EagleInKY]

We do Bob. (I would love to live in your world, where everything fits into a perfect box). Of the 12 boys in these patrols, two could not go backpacking. One is slightly overweight and has asthma, and the other injured his knee playing football. Both were okay hiking 5 miles, but not doing the backpacking for 15. Instead of staying home, they stayed back with the first year scouts and participated with them. Great scout attitude, in my opinion. Of course, we have the one scout who grumbles every time anything physical is involved on a campout. He stayed home.

 

kenk -

 

Regarding your other questions. If you see adults doing most of the cooking and cleaning, I would be concerned. Unless they are cooking just for themselves.

 

As for tents, I, too, prefer the smaller tents. We usually go 2 to a tent, and 3 if we have an odd number of scouts or have a compressed area to sleep in.

[Eamonn]

The Patrol method only works if we the adults want to make it work.

At times it is a lot more work for us and just bunching a group of Lads from different Patrols together does make life a lot easier.

At times just doing stuff that the Lads ought to be, should be and could be doing is a lot easier than taking the time of guiding, teaching and showing them how.

I'm a great cook, heck I'm a CEC, but my doing all the cooking might mean that we all eat well, it does very little to teach anyone anything.

Poor attendance at events in most (Not all) cases be blamed on poor planning.

When I read the Training and Wood Badge Thread, I see so many people post that "I used to be a Bear" or whatever other Wood Badge Patrol they are so proud to belong to (Bears are best.) One reason why Patrols are so big at Wood Badge is that the take home message is hey this works!! When we get our Scouts to have the same Patrol pride that we have no self-respecting Patrol member will want to be part of "That other Patrol".

Eamonn

[kenk]

Thanks so much for the replies!! I'm a bit bummed since there are a limited number of troops in the area and each that I've seen so far has its oddities and issues. I'm actually more bothered by the big tent method of camping that the virtual patrol issue - though I understand the problem there too.

 

At least I am a bit wiser and can ask smarter questions. Thanks for the tip on the Patrol Leader handbook. I love reading those books anyway.

 

I'm going to hijack this thread slightly because an odd question came to mind:

 

Focusing on commonly used Eureka Timberline tents, which size do you use figuring on 2-3 boys per tent? The "2-man" or the "4-man"?

 

I'm not talking backpacking or anything like that - just car camping. It seems that the 2-man would be a bit too small for 2 with gear and that the 4-man would be a bit too big for 2 - maybe just right for 3.

[Bob White]

If your not looking at back packing long distances I prefer the 4. What my sons troop does is they use two different size tents. First year scouts have a 7X7 dome. THen after the first year and they have growna little taller and gottemna little stronger they go to a 7X 9 A-frame.

 

It works out real well.

 

EagleInKY,

you would meet quite a few scouters in my world. There is nothing magical about us, we simply follow the program the way it is designed. It's really quite easy. If three guys from the bear patrol have to stay behind they do so as half the bear patrol they do not eat or camp with the hawk patrol members, they act as an independent unit.

[Troop185]

In regards to your question on the Eureka Timberline Tents: we prefer the 4 man with a vestibule for their boots. They can also leave their rain gear in the vestibule.

 

We figure on two scouts to a tent, but often have 3 scouts in a 4 man. This works good if they do not have too much gear. The younger scouts often prefer that, especially if it is cold. The only time we put four scouts in one, is on wilderness trips.

 

I have a two man Eureka with a vestibule that I really like. But if I am car camping, I go with the 4 man, unless it is really cold. The 2 man is 5 by 7 feet, the four man is 7 by 9 feet.

[Eagle76]

Kenk, our troop has been experiencing some of the same problems you observed, but our new leadership is attempting to change things.

 

The patrol method was weak to non-existent, with "virtual patrols" on campouts. So we re-organized patrols, making them a little larger, and going forward campout patrols may be as small as 2, but the intent is to maintain patrol integrity. Only single scouts will be joined to another patrol. Cooking/cleaning has not been done by adults, but what has happened is the boys have been taking the easy way out, planning menus which minimize the cooking and cleaning. We will be raising expectations in the future.

 

The car-camping-only contingent on our committee recently voted to purchase an 8-man tent for the troop. Their logic was that this would eliminate anyone being left out. I voted against it, as I would have preferred more 2-man tents, so that they could also be used on the backpacking trips I'm pushing for, but I was outvoted. When we do start backpacking, that big tent will just be left behind.

[evmori]

The Scouts should be doing their own cleaning & cooking! As far as virtual patrols, if need be, by all means. Not real big on the "one tent for all" idea. We use 2 man tents on campouts. Works great.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

Back home in the UK when I was scouting there we used six man tents. Six being the size of most Patrols. It worked well.

One good thing about some of the Patrol members not attending a weekend camp out was that there was more room in the tent.

I was looking at some photos that someone had posted on the MSN Scouting site of a Troop camping at Gilwell Park and it seems they have moved away from the six man tent, but Shop Shops UK still sells them.

As for Virtual Patrols - Never in Real Time.

It really is a big deal.

Eamonn.