SPL and ASPL do they belong to a Patrol?

[ASM59]

I have two questions that I'd like the members here to comment on:

 

The first is based on two different opinions within the Adult leadership of our troop. Are the SPL and the ASPL to operate outside of a patrol (like a patrol unto themselves) or are they to operate as members of the other patrols?

 

My other question comes from another post that I read recently, where a given troop has more than one ASPL. Is it alowed to have more than one ASPL? If so where is it documented that this is OK?

 

Thanks,

ASM59

[EagleInKY]

First the clear cut one, yes you can have as many ASPLs as you need. As a troop gets larger, the SPL often needs help in running activities, providing guidance to the PLs and doing other tasks. Plus, you'll likely have multiple QMs, Historians, and other troop positions. The ASPLs primary responsibility is working with these guys. If you have more of them, you'll need more ASPLs to help provide guidance to them.

 

Your first question requires some follow-up. Are you talking about in all situations or just specific times?

 

The easy answer is that the SPL and ASPL are not part of a patrol. That's very clear. However, when you camp, where do they sleep? Who do they eat with? Some troops will have a "senior patrol". Don't confuse it with "venturing patrol", because they could be different. The "senior patrol" may often include the SPL and ASPLs. This is a throwback to the old Leadership Corps of the 70s and 80s. (One change I wish they hadn't made, oh well).

 

At some events, like camporees, you have patrol-based activities. The SPL and ASPLs would like to participate in these as well, assuming they aren't helping run the event. In these cases, we'll let them participate in a patrol, usually based upon which one needs the help. We make sure to point out that during the competition, he is a member of the patrol and the PL is in charge. He can't wear his SPL hat at that time.

 

Hope that gives you some answers. Add some specifics and we can help more.

[Hunt]

Here's a little twist--if he's working toward an Eagle Palm, he is required to be active in his "troop and patrol."

[ASM59]

Eagle...

 

In response to your questions;

I am talking in general. On general campouts, we generally have the SPL and ASPL work with the patrol that they were originally a member of. I can see having a "senior patrol", but wonder if that would work in a Troop that has only one ASPL and therefore would have a senior patrol of two boys.

 

Thanks for the input and keep the comments coming.

 

ASM59

[acco40]

Not only Eagle Palms but Star, Life and Eagle.

 

Bluegrass Eagle is correct, technically the SPL and ASPL(s) are not members of a patrol. As he stated, if the SPL hung around with a patrol he would over-shadow the PL.

 

In our troop we have the SPL and ASPL eat with the adult patrol (who technically are not a patrol either). This gives the SM and SAs time to communicate with the youth leadership and is kind of a perk (we eat much better due to our superior planning and cooking skills ;-)

 

At camporees, we have them participate with the patrol they came from.

 

The National Jamboree model was to have four patrols of eight (32 boys) and four adults (SM, 1st, 2nd and 3rd SA) and four youth leaders (SPL, ASPL, Scribe and Quartermaster). At each meal, one adult and one youth leader would be invited to each patrol making group of 10 for each meal.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Bob White]

No, according to the BSA program as explained in the Scoutmaster Handbook and the SPL Handbook, SPL and ASPLs do not function within the other patrpls. There is a very simple reason why. You cannot serve two masters.

 

If the SPL is in a patrol and responsible for patrol duties as a patrol member how can he do his leadership job of observing and evaluating the other patrols and their leaders?

 

How do you get a patrol member to go to his patrol leader for information, instruction assistance when the SPL is right there? The PL has to be given the opportunity to learn and practice his leadership as the leader of the group without outside interference.

 

The SPL and other troop officers can form their own group or they can join the adult leaders which is what I think works best as it gives the adult leaders greater opprotunities to counsel and mentor the junior leaders.

 

 

Yes you can have as many ASPLS as needed to make the troop function. (Two is usually sufficient one for program one for administration)

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

BW

[anarchist]

The SPL and His ASPL(s) are troop postions they as BW says can not serve two masters...They do not belong to patrols.

 

Our SPL/ASPL even acting SPL(s) if both leaders are "out of action" run the troop business and eat with the adults and or follow the age old scout tradition of mooching or grazing if one of the patrols can put on a better feed than the adults (hardly)....as on of the "perks" of office the adults feed the SPL for his efforts with the troop...basically he eats for free for a year! (and eats very well I might add).

 

As for multiple ASPLs don't know that I have ever seen either an official statement that there can be multiples nor have I seen any prohibition...depending on the size of the troop more can be better!

anarchist

[Bob White]

Page 13 of the Scoutmaster Handbook.

[SWScouter]

I just looked in my Scoutmaster Handbook and p. 13 doesn't say anything about multiple ASPLs. In fact, it never mentions ASPL in plural at all, nor does the whole of chapter 3, The Boy-Led Troop. I double checked, then checked again. Perhaps the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook does. I have the 2005 printing, 33009C.

 

SWScouter

[Bob White]

Read the description for the ASPL.

[mdutch]

SPL Handbook Pg. 108

[evmori]

In order for a Scout who is a SPL or ASPL to earn his Star/Life/Eagle rank, the Scout must be a member of a patrol.

 

Be active in your troop and patrol for at least x months as a xxx Scout.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagle76]

Historically, in our troop the SPL and ASPL's have camped with their old patrol. They were all rather startled when I pointed out to them at the last PLC that they were not part a patrol during their term of service, but that their attention should be on the whole troop. The immediate question raised was what to do on campouts. I discussed it with the SM, and going forward the troop leadership will tent together, and they will split up and eat with a different patrol each campout. They'll still foot their share of the food bill, but will not be burdened with cooking or cleaning duties.

[SWScouter]

Gads, I don't know how I missed that. The last sentence for the description of ASPL states, "Large troops may have more than one assistant senior patrol leader."

 

Just another confirmation that my wife is correct in that I can't find things. Heck, I probably can't find my way out of a paper bag.

 

SWScouter

[mdutch]

What would like to know is either:

1)How did you find your way into a normal sized paper bag?

OR

2)Where do you get such a giant oversized bag?