Troop Guides

[mdutch]

For those of you who use NSPs with Troop Guides, do you keep the Troop Guides in a seperate patrol or do they become members of the New Scout Patrol? For those who keep them in a seperate patrol, how do you work this out? For example, when cooking breakfast which group are they with? If you have them with "their patrol" (not the NSP) then who is helping the new scouts (they may have, for example, forgoten how to set up the stove correctly)?

 

Not sure if this makes any sence.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Eagledad]

We tried it several different ways and keeping the Troop Guides (TG) with the new scouts until after summer camp worked the best for us.

 

NSPs were created as an attempt to slow down the high loss of first year scouts. New scouts struggle their first six months because they are overwhelmed by the new experience of personal responsibility and independence required in the boy run program.

 

It usually takes about six months to get use to the boy run program. Until then, new scouts need the constant consistent guidance and role modeling so develop the confidence and habits needed to enjoy the Boy Scouting experience. You only need to leave a NSP alone for 15 minutes to see them drift off task from lack of self-discipline. Even the simple task of going to sleep is challenging for new scouts who want to loudly express their days experiences.

 

Typically a TG can move out of the patrol after six months.

 

Barry

 

[mdutch]

Barry,

Thanks for your response, but I don't think I asked my question very clearly.

 

While you have TG's in the NSP are they full memebers of the NSP or are they in some way both there old patrol and the NSP at the same time?

[KoreaScouter]

In our Troop, the Guide is not a member of a patrol at all; he's in the same category as the SPL & ASPL. On campouts, those three eat with the "old goats". That relief from prep, cook, and cleanup allows them to tend to their leadership duties. In the case of the Guide, that includes coaching the NSP in their prep, cook, and cleanup. He may eat with them if he opts to, but in my experience, that's a rare occurrence.

 

Also, like the SPL & ASPL, he'll return to his original patrol when his term ends...

 

KS

[Eagledad]

>>While you have TG's in the NSP are they full memebers of the NSP or are they in some way both there old patrol and the NSP at the same time?

[EagleInKY]

We've toyed with this as well. I don't think the TG should be a part of the NSP under any circumstance. Just like Woodbadge, the TG is present, but not a part of the patrol. Over time, his role becomes less and less visable.

 

I think he fits best with the SPL and ASPL. He needs to be involved with Troop Meeting and activity planning so that he gets the NSP needs covered.

[EagleBeaver]

Our troop guides stay in their regular patrol and have the flexibility to help their NSP cook and clean as needed. For easier meals or when the NSP gets the hang of it, then the guide leaves them alone. The NSP scouts are told that they can ask their guide for guidance and advice at any time. The troop guides attend NSP patrol meetings, teach skills, and sign off on advancement so cooking is a small part of their job effort.

This year we have 3 NSPs and all 3 troop guides are from the same patrol. Next year, I hope to have troop guides immune from regular patrol cooking/cleaning on those outings where they are guiding their NSP.

I've spent quite a bit of time instilling in the troop guides the importance of their assignment to the strength of the troop. They understand that the first 6 months will often make or break a scout so they take their role seriously. Much of the level of success depends on the attitude and skill level of the scout taking on the troop guide position.

 

Paul

[NIscouter]

I may be wrong, but I thought I saw the Troop Guide was part of the PLC in the SM handbook. This, to me, would indicate they are not part of any partol, as noted by KoreaScouter, until thier duties are completed. From my recent experience in Wood Badge, the method of the TG being outside of a patrol would be the best. I think the guide needs to be free from patrol responsibilities to properly assist the new scouts.

[watercub]

At our Troop, they stay in their patrol. Realistically, they spend all of their patrol meeting time with the NSP. At another Troop that I serve as a Commissioner, the TG is a member of the Leadership Corps, which is the SPL, ASPLs and Troop Guides.

[pmickle1027]

In my glory days of my youth the TG was one of the leadership corps. In my current troop the TG is generally the retireing SPL, havig been apointed by the Scoutmaster.

[pmickle1027]

Didnt finish the last statement: appointed by the new Spl with the advise of the SM. They then remain in the " senior patrol".

[Bob White]

If you follow the program as it is designed, the TG joins the New Scout Patrol and stays with them until they either disband to join other patrols or are ready to elect a full term patrol leader.

 

How involved he stays from momont to momnent will depend on the development of patrol and the needs and characteristics of the patrol members.

 

The program also recommends that when there are high adventure activities for the older scouts that the TGs be included so that they can keep active with their peers as well.

 

 

[acco40]

I beg to differ. I believe the program states that Troop Guides do not leave their "home" patrol - they are not members of the NSP. They are a member of the PLC.

 

Now, Nlscouter - is not the PL part of the PLC and part of a patrol? So why do you infer that because the TG is part of the PLC he is not in a patrol?

 

All - the "senior patrol" is a misnomer, jsut like Class A and Class B. Very often used but strictly speaking, the SPL and ASPL(s) are NOT part of a patrol.

[Hillis]

acco40, I agree, the SPL and ASPL are not really a patrol, but how do you believe they should go about cooking and eating. Do they eat with the adults? Do they cook for themselves? Do they eat other patrols' leftovers?

[Kudu]

If you follow the program as it is designed, the TG joins the New Scout Patrol and stays with them until they either disband to join other patrols or are ready to elect a full term patrol leader.

 

Bob, where exactly did you find such a definitive answer?

 

I beg to differ. I believe the program states that Troop Guides do not leave their "home" patrol - they are not members of the NSP.

 

acco40, I couldn't find that either.

 

In my current troop the TG is generally the retiring SPL, having been appointed by the Scoutmaster.

 

pmickle1027, I think that is the ideal situation. By the way, as recently as the last SM Handbook (eighth edition), the TG was indeed appointed by the Scoutmaster, "Each patrol of new Scouts is under the supervision of an older Scout called a troop guide, who is appointed by the Scoutmaster in consultation with the assistant Scoutmaster responsible for new Scouts [page 23]"

 

acco40, I agree, the SPL and ASPL are not really a patrol, but how do you believe they should go about cooking and eating. Do they eat with the adults? Do they cook for themselves? Do they eat other patrols' leftovers?

 

Hillis, in our Troop, the SPL and Troop Guide compare the written menus before the campout to decide with which Patrol they want to eat. :-)

 

I thought that the BSA kept this stuff intentionally ambiguous. In our Troop, the Guide "guides" the newest Patrol, and may sleep and eat in their campsite until they know how to set up their tents, write a menu, cook, and shop.

 

Most Troop Guides would prefer to hang out with their old Patrol, but first it is his most important task to find a good Patrol Quartermaster. A Patrol cannot become independent until they have a good Quartermaster, so different Scouts try it out in the same way that most New Scout Patrols rotate Patrol Leaders. In our Troop this is a really big deal. When the best Patrol Quartermaster emerges and proves that he can handle the responsibility, he is technically appointed as one of the multiple Troop Quartermasters and wears that position patch.

 

By then a natural leader is usually emerging, but I digress :-)

 

Kudu