So who is in charge of the patrol?

[Lynda J]

PLC is formed from

SPL

ASPL

PL

APL

SM (only as advisor)

PLC meets and takes ideas from the PL, APS, and SM. The PLC them makes the decission as to which ideas they want to go forward with. They must make a plan as to what is required to put these ideas into action. How to fund them. What will be needed as far as transportation or materials.

They then go back to their patrols and give the patrols the plan. The PL them decides with his patrol who will take charge of the different parts of the plan.

The SM is there to make sure the plan is safe and does not violate any BSA policies. He is an advisor. If he is lucky his boys will trust him enough to make him a major part of the planning. But remember BSA stands for Boy Scouts of America

Not Adult Scouts of America.

[Bob White]

I'm sorry Lynda but you are incorrect according to the Scoutmaster Handbook, The Senior patrol Leader handbook, and the Scoutmaster Leader Specific Basic Training.

 

The PLC is made of

the SPL,

the ASPL,

the Patrol Leaders,

The Troop Guide,

the temporary New Scout Patrol Leader,

and the Venture Patrol Leader.

 

While others can be invited if they have specific reports or information to share, these are the only actual PLC members and they are the only ones with a vote.

 

The Scoutmster is ther only to keep things on task, the majority of his or her work is done before and after the meeting but not during.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Lynda J]

Our PLC has ask that APL come to PLC meetings. They also have the troop Scribe come to take notes so nothing gets forgotten. They want the APL there in case the PL doesn't make the next meeting there is someone from that patrol that knows what went on.

[FScouter]

I'd say that the assistant PL should be at the PLC meeting if the PL will not. But having the APL there for every meeting would seem to give permission for the PL to skip troop meetings. I'd rather see the PL contact the APL and brief him as needed if he (PL) will miss a troop meeting.

 

Another concern is that it is much easier to conduct a small PLC meeting. Extra bodies at the table makes for unnecesary discussion and confusion.

[flmomscoutw3]

I saw this post and a couple others dealing with the patrol method and thought I had hit gold. Boy it is amazing the different ways things are done and the same few words are interpreted. (I can't qoute the different ways, it'd take to much sapce) Our Troop has been struggling to get the patrols acting as patrols. We had lots of turnover of scouts the last couple of years and need to get back on track.

I think that our SM or the LC advisor (an SA) are talking to much during the PLCs. How much in the way of "guidence" should they be giving.

One of the problems in our troop is that the boys are reluctent to say "We're going to go "here" and do "this"." I don't know if it's because they don't know about places to go or they are just afaid the adults will nix the idea.

I am the SA advisor to one of the patrols, we are getting ready to plan some trips, how do I get the boys to plan them?As the driver on most of the campouts can I give distance suggestions? I try not to be a part of the meeting, just bringing snacks, (those ARE MY choice!) I want these guys to succeed so how do I make sure they have the tools needed? (skills to plan and carry out activities)

[anarchist]

flscoutmomw3,

 

Old thread, new reader...what a resource!

 

sounds like they need a lesson in planning (or lots of lessons)

 

Boy led does not mean boys left alone...we are expected to teach these guys how to be patrols and how to accomplish things...and you can't do that sitting back "knitting".

 

First we need to let them know what is expected...What they are supposed to be doing. Then we need to show them the ways they can accomplish those tasks.

 

Will they then just jump to it? Heck no...If I asked you to design a working oil refinery you couldn't do it...and we can't expect these kids to get the patrol method right either...not without training and practice.

 

As leaders -we need to teach...we start small, offer suggestions, allow brain storming, have them make lists, and

then ASK QUESTIONS...example -"gosh John, you want to go camping in Texas next weekend, well we live in Maine, How are we going to get there and back in three days?" ...or.... "You want to build a five story pioneering tower? Great, where do we get the wood? Can you think of some sources? how are we going to raise money for the spars?...." In many cases if you posed the 'problems' they can come up with solutions or the determination that it may be time to rethink the idea: well gee wiz, maybe we build a one story tower this time!".

 

The true problems generally come from adults wanting to make things "March"...we want to see great progress in a short time and patrol democracy is not very pretty...so we "take over" or talk too much, thinking that we can do it better and faster (both questionable sometimes) but if we do it -they can't learn.

 

Think of it as an exploration from two different directions...we are looking at it one way and they look at it from a different angle...WE have to "see" what they see and then try to explore with them (from the back seat without them knowing we are there). Like riding a good horse -a very light hand on the reins...but still there to direct and "check" when you must.

 

We find questioning/statements like "how about...?", "What do you think about...?", "How could you....?), "Do you think...?", "What else could we.....?", really get the BOYS juices flowing...We do not 'nix' anything right out of the gate...but we lead them to explore the ideas and possible results, costs and realities...it takes time...lots of time and it can be frustrating to the "Nth" degree but it is a good way to teach boys and interestingly it show us parents that given a chance the boys can do way more than we ususally give them credit for...our motto is "If a boy can do it, Adults don't!"

 

example- Planning a meal- If you ask a new scout patrol to plan breakfast, you are likely to get a five course meal: Pop Tarts, Cocoa Puffs, Fruit Loops, sugar pops and donuts...not even any milk!

On the other hand if you say...what do you guys like for breakfast at home...a whole catalog of items will come rushing out and some of them might even be good food! Then a suggestive question such as: how would we cook scrambled eggs? what would we need?...and the race is on...time consuming? Yes! But highly worth while.

 

This process is repeated on nearly every planning task you can think of and then you and the PL fill in the gaps...in the open so the boys get to see how it is done...

 

let us know if we can help

Anarchist

[flmomscoutw3]

Thanks Anarchist-Great info. I had so little go on from the example of our adults. Most of them want to just take over when the boys get off track or just don't know how to do something. Lots of disipline coming from the adults if the "plan" doesn't work, and lots of you should have's after the fact. I'm sure that when this patrol gets the hang of it, the others will follow.

 

Summer's coming-have fun!

[t158sm]

Patience is the key to the success of a patrol, a troop, even a single Scout. Adults have to learn not to follow their instincts and come to the rescue at the first sign of trouble. Sometimes the Scouts even have to "fall flat on their faces" in order to learn.

One thing I've seen done with a new PLC is to have the adults run the first meeting as an example and then turn the reins over to the Scouts for the next one. This can work well as training by example. But the Scouts must know beforehand that they are in charge, this is only an example to show how it's done. If the adults still do too much talking have them in separate rooms. PLC in one, adults in another, close enough to help "if asked." Far enough not to hinder the Scouts.

 

[flmomscoutw3]

T158sm That is a great idea. I will be making that suggestions. It will be in a couple of weeks before our next PLC, I'll let you know how/if it works out. The adults should already be able to step back as they have been at the table for several already! YiS

[t158sm]

Great, I look foward to hearing how things turn out.

[flmomscoutw3]

Wanted to update those of you who helped me thru some patrol issues. The PLC was last week and it went great. Actually I think our CC was reading over my sholder. He is really seeing that we have gotten away from the book and wants to get back on track. The SPL is still pushed a bit too much by one of the ASM's but hopefully that will be handled. The patrol that I am advisor for is just taking off. I spoke with the PL, gave him hints on running the meeting, went over the PL Hnadbook with him. He has brought some great ideas to his patrol. They are going to start working on a merit badge as a patrol. the PL is looking for simple ones that will not require to much work. Wants "his" patrol to set the example for the other patrols to follow. He has a written agenda before each meeting, so that during their patrol time at the meetings they don't waste time. The SPL actually commented that this patrol is inspiring him to do a better job. PL got a kick out of that. BIG boost to his ego. Still too much adult interaction (or is it interference) at meetings, but the PL has gone to SPL with these complaints and SPL told the SM. Things will change if they keep at it. I did have to remind an adult that the PL needs to be the one to advise his patrol on when they were meeting. Our SM and he are trying to say they must have "X" number of patrol meetings each month, but I think the scouts have a good handle on things and will let it flow. The PL wants to review the under first class scouts handbooks and get them to first class ASAP. One just needs one or two requirements. Two have several requirements, but PL is hoping to get several done at our next campout. It really has been fun to watch this scout grow and get excited then share his excitment with his patrol members. Boy is he running with this Patrol method!

I want to thank everyone who gave me advise and shared their on experiences on this forum. Having this space to vent and share and get some feedback from others has really helped a lot. Even just reading that maybe our Troop is not the worst out there is a bit comforting.