Bad Patrol Leader

[ScoutNut]

Oh, trust me, I'm not hiding.

 

"i didn't mean giving up on him totally."

 

Really?

 

"after 2 or 3 monthes of this so called teaching and mentoring, i think that it should become serious. this is the time when you really ask yourself and the troop if he has enough potential to keep around."

 

OK, so it's only after you decide he has no potential, that you don't keep him around?

 

"but this is after he has let down his patrol for 3 months. all that time he is being trained and mentored, and he still isnt changing, so one of his patrol-mates brought it to the SM's attention. then after another 2-3 monthes of really concentrating on him, it is time to really evalute him and decide whether or not there is any potential at all"

 

OK, now we're up to 6 months.

 

"if it were in my troop he would have many chances, after he grew up and matured more. then, when he shows he is ready, he can be re-enstated to his positioned, all-the-while, he will still be mentored by the adults."

 

How would you be able to do this when, after 6 months, you have told him he has no potential as a Scout & you were not going to keep him around anymore?

 

Learning how to work with, & even help a "bad" leader, is a great way to learn about leadership. Perhaps, after you have grown up & matured a bit more, & learned more about what it takes to be a leader, you will not be so quick to write someone off.

 

 

 

[evmori]

No one is saying he has no potential! No one is saying give up on him! Even Michael Jordan was cut from his high school basketball team!

 

Everyone learns in different ways & at different rates. Heck, my two kids are a great example! One gets it the 1st time & the other has to be kicked in the head to get it. Did I give up on either? No.

 

Not all Scouts are going to be leaders. Some don't want to & some can't. There is nothing wrong with that!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

 

 

[hacimsaalk12]

"How would you be able to do this when, after 6 months, you have told him he has no potential as a Scout & you were not going to keep him around anymore? "

 

first of all you misquoted me. i said keep him around, meaning keep him as a PL. i never once mentioned dismissing him from the troop.

 

"OK, so it's only after you decide he has no potential, that you don't keep him around? "

 

once again i meant keep him as a PL. he may be better in another position, one that doesn't require as much leadership. such a scribe, historian, ect.

 

"Perhaps, after you have grown up & matured a bit more, & learned more about what it takes to be a leader, you will not be so quick to write someone off. "

 

so what exactly are you saying here. do you mean to say that i am young, foolish, and have no idea what makes a good leader because i am only a scout, and scouts dont know what a leader is, only adults do.

[NIscouter]

Ed, I have to disagree with you on this. I think you and hacimsaalk12 are, in reality, giving up on him and yes, ALL boys can lead. By promoting the idea in this thread that not all boy can be good leaders or leaders at all, based it appears only on the flimsy assumption that some do not want to be leader, is a misuse of logic of reasoning. Its' like saying the road is wet, so it must have rained. I recommend you quit being a contrarian and admit it, any boy can be trained to be a good leader - not a superstar perhaps, but a leader who can recognize group dynamics, bring his team together,get things done, and take direction from his leaders, both scout and scouter. Of course it is up to them to want it and up to us to help them find that path. What is that phrase...oh yea, "Train'em, Trust'em, Let Them Lead" not the few, but all of the scouts!

[hacimsaalk12]

"I recommend you quit being a contrarian and admit it, any boy can be trained to be a good leader - not a superstar perhaps, but a leader who can recognize group dynamics, bring his team together,get things done, and take direction from his leaders, both scout and scouter."

 

i will not admit something that isnt true. not all scouts will be good leaders, PERIOD. some are born leaders, and some will be leaders with a little bit of training.

 

 

"Of course it is up to them to want it and up to us to help them find that path"

 

well in this case it doesn't seem that this particular scout wants it.

[EagleInKY]

Boy, you go away for a couple of weeks and miss lots of action. This had the potential of being a worthwhile thread, unfortunately, it turned into a spat. Here are a few thoughts, and how our troop works.

 

First, I must admit to agreeing more with Bob on this subject. I believe that one of our most important roles as Scoutmasters is to train, coach and mentor these boys into being good leaders. The majority of these problems should be solved before an election ever takes place.

 

Second, I do not believe all boys are cut out to be leaders. Some have it naturally, some learn it OJT (on the job training), while others learn it through formal methods like TJLT and NYLT. But some boys, no matter how hard they try, will never be strong leaders. And, as someone else said, I've seen boys that I thought would be great leaders fall on their face, while others have been a pleasant surprise.

 

Third, "give up after 2 or 3 months"? You have to be kidding me. If I gave up on every boy after 2-3 months, I'd have a room full of empty chairs. I've been working with our Troop Guide for several years now. I'm still trying to turn him into a leader. If I had given up on him after 2 months (or 2 years), he'd be gone. And I would hate to think what would happen with this young man if scouts wasn't in his life.

 

As for our troop, our election cycles are every six months. Therefore, IMHO, we can survive any "bad" PL for that period of time. Think about it, it takes 1-2 months for the boys to get into their new role. If it's truly a problem of a boy not being capable, you're probably not going to know for sure until the term is half over. At that point, you have to make the best of it until elections come around again.

 

I said this in another thread, I believe that if you have a strong senior leadership team (SPL, ASPL) and adult leaders, you should be able to survive a brief period with a bad PL.

 

Here are some things I've done or would do if necessary:

- Talk to the scout and find out if he enjoys the role. If he doesn't maybe he should step aside and let the APL lead the rest of the term. Also, counsel him about the need to fulfill his POR for rank advancmenet. You might not be willing to sign off his completion if he doesn't step up his performance.

 

- If a boy wants to run for PL and he is woefully unqualified, I may talk to him about serving in another capacity before trying to take on PL.

 

- Talk to the APL and see if he can step up and help the PL. Maybe he can plan on coming to all PLC meetings. Then if the PL doesn't show up, the patrol is covered. The PL may see this as a "threat" and may step up his performance as well. (I had to do this with our SPL/ASPL once, and it worked out pretty well).

 

 

Just my .02 worth. Glad to be back and add to the fray.

[evmori]

NIscouter,

I won't admit to something I don't think is true, either. Is it possible that by removing a Scout from a POR because of poor performance is a motivator? Could be!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Interesting Topic, The Position of Responsibility lasts 4 or 6 months, its the job of the Scoutmaster to see to it the scout has the training necessary to satisfactorily complete the term. If after a month 6 weeks or so the scout is floundering, support should be given to the scout, after a few months of working with the scout, an assessment should be done and the scout allowed to "go it on his own". Now, if the scout does not fulfill the requirements of the POR, as explained by the scoutmaster or designee, perhaps the scout wasnt ready for the position and he should be relieved of the position. THis is not to be taken lightly. As in any "termination" the scout needs to review what was expected of him, what was done to help him and then what the issue(s) are that lead to his dismissal. The scout isnt told he "sucks" just that the posiiton needs to be done as its expected. I recognize this isnt easy on the scout, although he should have a pretty good idea he isnt doing the job right. If he is in denial about it, then a larger problem is uncovered. Why worry about all this? because of the message it sends the troop. Adults will support struggling scouts, but wont do the job for them and if they dont try to improve, they can be "fired". Actions have consequences, just like in the real world.