Bad Patrol Leader

[evmori]

Does someone have chapter & verse that states how to remove a PL?

[DugNevius]

Meamemg- yes unless the extend of the PL's ineptitude was so great that the adult leaders would have to step in.

[Bob White]

I sure some people will not want to hear this, but the program was not designed to REMOVE youth from leadership, but to teach them how to do it. Do not expect the BSA to give a leader instructions on how to punish scouts when the leader did not do their job.

[Lynda J]

Just as his patrol elected him they can also remove him from office. It shouldn't be the adults.

I do have one problem. Our PLC are set on the calendar that each boys gets. So not only does the PL know when the PLC meeting is but every other boys in the troop. We expect the APL be there along with the PL, SPL, ASPL, Scrib, OA rep.

If the boys are that unhappy with this PL then they need to handle it. NOT THE LEADERS.

 

Last year we had a SPL that did nothing. WHen it came time for OA elections, he was not elected. He was hurt and came to me to find out why. I suggested that he look at the type of leadership he had shown an SPL. And did he think that it was the quality leadership that the boys deserved. He agreed that he hadn't done a good job. At the next meeting he appoligized to the troop. I suspect he will run for SPL at the next elections and he may be elected. We will wait and see.

[evmori]

Why is it always the leaders not doing their job? Why isn't it the Scout just not cut out to be a leader?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Few boys if any comes into scouting "cut-out" to be a leader. It is the adult leaders job to develop them THROUGHOUT their scouting tenure in the skills of leadership. Of course for that to be possible the adult leader has to have an understanding of the scouting methods and of the skills of leadership.

[hacimsaalk12]

not to discourage anyone, but where is the YOUTH that is suppossed to be responding. this was meant as mostly a youth topic. i personally would like to see what other scouts like me have to say, not what a bunch of adults think (no offense to adults. you guys are great, but this is one that i think would be more beneficial from a scouts view)

 

 

 

 

p.s- i hope no one take offense to this

[Hunt]

"Do not expect the BSA to give a leader instructions on how to punish scouts when the leader did not do their job."

 

I observed a situation in which a boy who was elected to a leadership position could not adequately fulfill it, primarily due (I believe) to problems he was having at school. I guess if the adult leaders had "done their job," he would have realized that he should resign from the leadership position. But he didn't. So I guess in your world, Bob, the boys in the troop or patrol facing this situation must simply suffer through the lack of leadership until his term is up?

 

[evmori]

One more comment & I will shut up till more youth post.

 

Yeah not cut out to be leaders. Not every boy is leadership material. And no matter how much we as leaders "have an understanding of the scouting methods and of the skills of leadership" there are boys who will be bad leaders.

 

It isn't always the adult leaders who are at fault, Bob.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

In this hypothetical situation it very well could be, and in most cases it usually is.

[SR540Beaver]

hacimsaalk12,

 

This isn't meant to be offensive, so please don't take it that way. The site is called scouter.com. The vast majority of people posting here are scouters and not scouts. Obviously, scouts are welcome and a few post. In fact, we scouters do like to hear their views in these threads. For all I know, there could be thousands of scouts who read the forums, but choose not to post. I don't know. But you are probably going to get 99 to 1 scouter to scout posts here. Encourage your fellow scouts to post. We'd love to hear from them.

[Hunt]

"So I guess in your world, Bob, the boys in the troop or patrol facing this situation must simply suffer through the lack of leadership until his term is up?"

 

It's been pointed out to me that I shouldn't guess what Bob would do, although I think what I asked above is a fair response to his comments in this thread. So, Bob, what is the proper procedure to be taken when a boy needs to be removed from a position of reponsibility? You suggested that BSA won't tell us how to do this--how should it be done in a properly run troop?

 

[Bob White]

I think you will find asking me what I would do will get you a far more accurate and usable response than "guessing " at what I would do.

 

First I want point out that as a scoutmaster I would have never let things get this far. I would have had regular contact with all new PLs asking them how they think they were doing, asking them what they thought the patrol was doing well at and what they thought their patrol needed to get better at. I would reinforce with them what things I saw that they were doing as a leader that was good and what things I thought they needed to try and improve on. I have done this scouting thing for quite awhile (even longer than juris) and I never had a scout that needed to be removved, or one where the scouts wanted to remove him. I was the junior leader's guide and mentor not their boss. I didn't hire them, and I didn't fire them.

 

But let's take this case as If I was a new SM who inherited this problem. I would sit down with the patrol leader and ask him how things were going in the patrol and how he felt he was doing as the PL. If he said he was doing fine I would ask how the patrol was doing without him at the activities, and how was he managing to lead without being around. Eventually he would have to admit that things were not all that good.

 

I would ask him how I could help. I would offer him assistance in whatever leadership skills he felt he needed. If his problem was home or school related I would see how long he expected the problem to last and what steps he was taking to resolve the problem. If it was goinbg to be a short term thing I would bring in his APL and we would arrange for him to fill in for the PL until he could return to his duties.

 

If it was going to be a long term problem I would ask the scout what he thought should be done to make sure the patrol had the leadership it needed. The scout would probably volunteer to step aside and have a new PL elected or turn things over to his APL to step up to PL and let him select a new APL from the patrol.

 

You do not need to tell a scout what to do. You need to ask him questions so that he can think through situations for himself and make his own decisions. One poster has likened patrol operations to that of a military platoon with the PL passing down orders and telling the patrol members what to do...Yechh. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about treating scouts that way.

 

Scouting is about developing youth to make their own ethical choices not just to do what the SM or SPL tells them to. By-laws, troop rules, orders, inspections, that's not leadership in scouting, that is abdication of leadership. You are making paperwork control scouts rather than you taking the time and ...God forbid...getting to know each scout and what makes them tick as an individual.

 

A poster on this thread once questioned the process of actually asking questions of the SPL prior to arriving at camp as a way to prepare him for his next step. He asked 'what are going to do spent 15 minutes with a scout every time something needs to be done?'.

 

Well DUH! Of course I will if that scout needs 15 minutes. I can get most coaching done in a lot less time, but if the scout needs 15 minutes of my time in order to go do his job well, then I will gladly give him 15 minutes. I had assistants who knew what to do while I'm with the scout.

 

Hunt asks about how I do things in "my world"? I do them very well, thank you for asking.

[Hunt]

Bob, you seem to be saying that the way to get a youth leader who isn't performing out of the leadership position is for him to volunteer to step aside. What if he simply doesn't agree with you or with anyone else that he is doing a terrible job? What if the other members of the patrol come to the SM and say they'd like to "unelect" him--do they have the power to do that? You've said that BSA won't tell us the procedure to remove a boy from the PL position, and despite your lengthy answer, you haven't identified any such procedure other than a voluntary resignation. What can we surmise from this? Do you think there is no such procedure, or are you simply emphasizing that no such procedure should ever have to be used? While you've never had to remove a boy, or even seen one who should be removed, your experience may not be universal, or even typical.

[Bob White]

What I have said Hunt is that if you use good leadership skills this situation will not arise, and if it does arise you can probably counsel the scout into a solution that could range anywhere from coaching the scout through the problem, to giving him time off to deal with a situation to allowing him to choose to step down.

 

Which solution the scout will choose will vary from situation to situation. The important thing is that the resolution is the scout's choice. He is learning to make decision and you are SUPPOSED to be there to help him grow. You are not his boss and neither is the SPL.

 

Too many leaders today seem bent on being "in charge" of the scouts. Thats the easy way out. As long as you are in charge you never have to teach the scouts to think on there own, you just have to teach them to listen to you. After all... you're the boss, right?