Bad Patrol Leader

[mdutch]

How do you (the youth) remove bad youth leaders from office? For example, let's use the following situation (you are a youth who does not hold a leadership position):

2 months ago you elected a patrol leader. You thought he would do a great job, but he doesn't. He misses alot of meetings. He doesn't tell the patrol about upcoming campouts, so thanks to him your whole patrol didn't get to go to the camporee. He decided to not go to the PLC meeting and didn't bother to tell anyone, so of course his APL didn't know that he should attend. Your whole patrol is feed up with him as a leader and you want him out. What should you do?

 

(If your answer is something like "Asking your SPL/SM", then what would you advise the SM/SPL to tell this scout?)

[Bob White]

Once youth participants have had the opportunity to answer it would be interesting to see how the adults would respond.

[SR540Beaver]

meamemg,

 

Any scout can request an SM conference at any time. An SM conference is not just for advancement. The SM can hold one when he feels something needs to be addressed. Likewise, the scout can request one when he feels something needs to be addressed. He needs to make his concerns known.

 

That being said, does your troop not plan its outings far in advance? Many troops do an annual plan. Our troop does planning on a six month basis. The boys decide where they want to go and what they want to do. The adults along with the PLC set the calendar based on the council, district and school(s) calendar and our availibilty. It is published on our website and a paper copy of dates and activities is distributed to every boy and parent. I find it amazing that a whole patrol missed out on going to camporee because they didn't know it was happening. If so, there is a larger problem than just with the PL.

[acco40]

Hey, any adults out there ever work for a "pointy haired boss?" If your patrol leader is falling down on the job, step up! Attend your troop meetings to get info. Ask the APL and PL about holding PL meetings outside of troop meetings. And - best of all, learn to use the power of the ballot box effectively.

 

SR540Beaver - I don't believe other Scouts should be discussed during a SM conference.

[mdutch]

Beaver,

This was a completly hypothetical situation, just one that I feel has a good chance of happening if a certiant scout wins election as PL. I think the missing a campout was a bit exagerated, but you get the idea, the guy is clearly not doing a good job as PL.

Once these concerns are made known to the SM, how would you advise the SM to proceed?

 

acco,

So you don't believe that there is any method for removing a PL after he is elected?(This message has been edited by meamemg)

[SR540Beaver]

Acco,

 

We are not just talking about a scout complaining about another scout here. We are talking about a boy who enjoys scouting and wants to get something out of it having a PL who is ruining the experience for the whole patrol. The PL is part of the leadership and he isn't holding up his end of the bargain. I'd say the first thing the scout should do is privately discuss his concerns with the PL himself. If he gets blown off or the problem just continues, he can take it to the SPL. Ultimately, he can take his concerns to the SM. In part, an SM conference is a means for the SM to determine what a boy is getting out of scouting. If he is getting very little of anything but frustration because he has an apathetic PL, he needs to say so to the SM. The SM is ultimately responsible for leadership training and overseeing the program. If he is going to lose scouts over a problem, he needs to be made aware and take steps to rectify the problem. Actually, if he is paying any attention, it should not take a boy coming to him to find out about the problem. He should have already recognized it.

 

meamemg,

 

I'd think the first thing the SM should do is approach his SPL and have him counsel the PL and see if there is a problem or anything he can help with. Maybe the boy has had little training. Maybe he gets little support. Maybe the problem is the SPL is not doing his job. Again, the SM SHOULD already be aware of what is going on in the boy leadership and having a boy have to come directly to him and complain shouldn't even have to happen. The variables are just too great to give a single pat answer when you take individuals, training, age, experience, etc. into consideration.

[DugNevius]

in a democratic system, a true one, when one elected leader does not preform up to task he doesnt win a re-election. We have had a few poor PLs that just couldnt get a second term. The boys are aware of who is doing what and how well they are doing it.

[mdutch]

Dug,

Then you would agree that the patrol should have to live with their choice for the rest of the year (or however long the term is)?

[Bob White]

Leadership development is a process not an inheritence. Bos do not become leaders because they were elected.

 

When the BSA program is followed a boys ledership develop begins in the New Scout Patrol when he follws a Troop Guide for two months as the temporary Patrol Leader to see how a troop rruns and the responsibilities of leadership. It grows as he watches others lead and the ASM for New Scout Patrols talks with the new scouts around a campfire about the scout law and how it relates to being a leader. Theuy see more of it again as an APL for two months. Plus they watch as the Troop Guide models good leadership skills in his duties in the patrol.

 

The SPL explains at the end of the first year that they need to elect a PL who will hold the office for the nest 6 to 9 months and they they need to remember how each person lead and vote for the best leader and not their best friend.

 

It then continues with counseling and mentoring from the Scoutmaster begining with an introduction to leadership conference.

 

When a patrol leader fails it is usually because the troop program failed him first. If he has not had the training and development to prepare him for his responsibilities, and a guiding hand and voice to help him, then although the scout fell it was the adults who tripped him.

 

How do you get rid of a junior leader? The bigger question is how do you avoid having leaders who do not succeed. Your real problem is not with the youth, getting rid of the boy is just an easier way to keep from having to address the real problem.

[acco40]

BW, although I don't disagree with your post, I think the original poster asked the question from the perspective of a patrol member - not as a Scouter. Therefore, what should a patrol member (who is NOT responsible for leadership training) do? To advise him that, if the BSA program was followed the problem shouldn't exist, or some similar advice is a little too esoteric for a disgruntled 11 year old. I stick by my earlier advice.

 

 

[Bob White]

How do you (the youth) remove bad youth leaders from office?

 

Unless I totally misread the first post, meamemg wanted to here from youth not adults.

 

I responded only after it became clear that that was not happening. I did not ask anyone to abondon their advice, I simply gave my viewpoint. What meamemg is asking is how to claen up the mess but what he really needs to know is how to avoid it. In most cases when a scout does not perform well in a leadership role it is becasue he was not trained well to preare for it or not supported proerly once he got there.

 

Training leaders is the SM #1 responsibility. A boy rarely fails in scouting who wasn't first failed by an adult. Let's treat the cause and not the effect.

[hacimsaalk12]

i would probably take him aside and tell him how i and others thought he was doing, running our patrol. i would also tell him that he needed to quit slacking, and do his job. then, i would give him an amount of time to this all in. if he still hasnt started doing his job by then, i would talk to the SPL, tell him what was going on, and ask that something be done about it. after that it is out of my hands (that is the way the patrol method should work PL-ASPL-SPL-SM). if he is a good SPL, he will talk to the scout, and tell him he needs to do his part. if it cant be resolved there, then he would be refered to the SM, who hopefully can resolve it without having to take the position. in the worst case senario, the SM or SPL has the right to take the position, if he feels it in the best interest of the boys, and all the boys agree on it.

[Bob White]

I was with you 100% up until this point..."The Scoutmaster and the SPL have the right to take the position"

 

Since they did not give it to him what gives them the right to take it away?

[Hunt]

Despite best efforts to develop youth leaders, it will sometimes happen that a youth can't effectively carry out his leadership role. This may because something else in his life has intervened. He might disappear for a while. Assuming he doesn't resign from his position, what is the proper procedure to remove him? I think this is the question meameng is asking--assuming you've tried to reason with him, tried to train him, etc., and he still won't or can't perform, what do you do? Does the patrol have to vote to recall him, or does another leader--youth or adult--remove him?

[hacimsaalk12]

"The Scoutmaster and the SPL have the right to take the position"

 

 

i stand corrected. you are right. they didnt give it to him, so they cant take him awaay. in that case, i would say the patrol has the right to take a vote, and vote him out of office, since they DID vote him in.