Shunned Scouts

[alligator]

I have a couple of scouts that for various reasons have been shunned by (told they are no longer a member of) their patrol.

 

I had previously met with the PL and discussed his frustration with one of the scouts. He has been a behavioral challenge and probably always will be. Great kid, nice family, he just deals with issues that he can not be held responsible for. Nonetheless, we do work on holding him responsible for his behavior. The PL and I discussed some strategies for working with the scout and how to know when the PL had had enough and needed to let someone else step in for a bit to give him a break or when a SA needed to shadow the scout for a while. All in all I thought we had a plan. Before I had a chance to observe the plan, the PL announced to the Scout that he was out of the patrol.

 

The other Scout wants to be in the patrol, crossed over with them from WEBELOS and considers them his friends. A couple of the Scouts and the PL have decided they dont like him and don't want him in the patrol and again the PL announced to this scout he was out.

 

We only have two regular patrols and a NS patrol. Neither of these Scouts wants to move to the other patrol.

 

I am guessing having a SM meeting with the entire patrol is my next step. Any counsel or advice on this before I do?

 

Any lessons learned that you could share?

 

 

[SemperParatus]

Welcome to the forum.

 

I would first suggest a SM conference with the PL. As you know, it is not the PL's decision as to who is in and out of a patrol. You need to make that very clear to him. Likewise, drawing him out as to possible solutions to the problem may help him in his leadership development. Perhaps some role playing is in order with the PL and the other patrol members who are doing the shunning (or better yet at the next PLC meeting for all leaders to benefit), so that they understand what it may feel like to be 'left out' or 'unwanted', and can have some empathy for the scout(s) and perhaps see things from a different perspective. I seem to recall some role playing games/scenarios (not necessarily scouting related) I had found on the internet that worked well in these types of situations.

 

A SM conference with the shunned scouts is also in order to address behavioral issues and try and repair hurt feelings. It may be necessary to hold these on a frequent basis, if necessary, to help diffuse future problems.

 

I would also suggest one or more SA be assigned as patrol advisors to work very closely with the PL (and the whole patrol) over the next few months in order to ensure that intra-patrol issues are appropriately addressed.

 

Problems like this can really make you pull your hair out (oops...sorry). Good luck to you.

[alligator]

Thanks for the welcome!

 

Great ideas.

 

I think your comment about a SM with the shunned scouts is well on point. You are right that they need more support.

 

The behavioral issues are beyond a SMC and are being dealt with by professionals. My goal is to work as best we can with the Scout. Like I said, great guy and worth every bit of effort we can muster; well then... isn't everyone.

 

I will look into some role playing scenarios. I think that is a great start to building empathy.

 

Thanks. I don't have much left to pull on!

 

 

[Eamonn]

I don't think that I ever heard the word "Shunned" used in regard Scouting before!! There was a movie a while back something to do with the Amish.

During my time as a Scoutmaster there were some Lads that were a real handful and I kinda think that the PL's used a very un-scout-like approach to bring things around. I of course would not suggest that sort of thing to anyone.

Looking at what you posted I think I see three problems.

1/ The Lad who has all the problems.

2/ The Patrol Leader.

3/ The Scoutmaster.

Most of us volunteer leaders do not have all the skills needed to deal with problems that are of a medical nature. If this Lad is really disrupting the Patrol and causing a lot of problems that he really has no control over, it is different than a Lad who is just misbehaving or just having a bad day. I think I would have a face to face meeting with his parents and see what is going on. Maybe his medication needs to be adjusted? Maybe a lot of things could be the reason or could be done to accommodate him and his disability.

The PL, may well have overstepped the mark and does need to be informed that Shunning is not the way we do things. But if this Lad is a first class pest that adults are having a hard time with I can see that he may be completely overwhelmed and at his wits end.

The Scoutmaster is supposed to train the Patrol Leaders. It would seem that there is a lack of communication if a Lad can get kicked out of a patrol. Surely the adults in the troop must have seen this coming? The Scoutmaster if he was supporting the PL should have sensed the frustration that the PL was feeling.

The Troop Committee needs to meet with the Parents of the Lad and see what can be done if he has a medical condition. The Lad should meet with the SM and some ground rules need to be set. After the meeting with the Lad, it might be an idea to have the PL come and join the discussion, so everyone is on the same page.

The SM needs to work more closely with the PLC and go over how things are done. The first item on the PLC Agenda should always be: How is it going?

This shunning idea has a lot of merit, maybe I do use it in the District? (Just joking.)

Eamonn.

Welcome to the forum.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Vicki]

We have a boy with very serious behavioral problems. He is under professional care. Actually we have several boys under professional care, but he is the most obvious. On campouts we dole out several medicines very carefully. The only way we've been able to handle him as an active member of the troop is a) work very closely with his mother (single parent with some of the same issues he has) and b) the SM, ASMs and our cadre of camping leaders keep a weather eye out for when he's getting out of control. That's not to say adults are on him all the time, far from it, as a troop we take a very hands off approach. Usually just a mild admonition brings him back, sometimes the SM needs to take him aside. But, and this is where Eamonn is spot on - if his medications are off or have been changed, it's obvious. His mother always lets us know to watch him in those situations and we always let her know whether or not there's been a problem (other than stuff that stays at the campfire).

 

BL, I think your PL might need some more support and guidance from you. In my relatively limited (but growing) experience, I think you've gotten some very good advice from the others here.

 

Vicki

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

Im not surprised with the PLs actions. He felt trapped and reacted in the only way he knew to ease his struggle. That is what we humans do. The SM just needs to counsel him and give him more tools for dealing with these kinds of situations, a good life lesson. The lesson for the adults is take that as a new experience to add to our bag wisdom.

 

Now, Im with Eammon that you have to pull the parents in here. You didn't really say it, but I also have a feeling that they are part of the problem. We had a situation like this in our Troop and here is the thing, the troop is going to have to step out of their normal routine with this scout and the parents need to know that up front. DONT HIDE ANYTHING. I say that because this blew up in our SMs face. Be up front, about the whole situation so the parents understand that the Troop adults are not trained physiologist who can handle any and all boy behaviors that show up in the troop, you need help. Now they may or may not care, but there should be no surprises down the road.

 

I would even suggest that you keep your UC and DE updated on the situation. In our case, the parents went strait to the Council Executive to complain about our troop, but were surprised that that he already knew about situation because we keep our DE updated. And who knows, they just might have some valuable advise.

 

I think assigning an ASM to the scout and/or patrol is a great idea. I saw this work faster than any other idea we tried. If you can, get the parents to hang around at the meeting and campout as well. But that didnt work for us.

 

Im glad the Eammon mentioned the PLC, but Im surprised that the SPL was never mentioned. They are closer to this situation than the adults. If the troop structure is working as designed, each scout has a scout up the ladder to go for for advice or help. How did the SPL get left out? Any guidance given to the PL in this situation should also be given to the SPL and possibly the PLC because they were likely approached first, or at least saw this coming before the SM.

 

I realize that this kind of thing is even a challenge for the adults, but in a boy run troop structure, they need to at least be trained and counseled in dealing with these kinds of situations because it could happen again, as I said, they see it first. I have a feeling the SPL might have at least help the PL understand that shunning a scout is not the best approach. Lets go talk with the SM and get his help.

 

Boy, I wish the best of luck to you on this one, it was a tough go for us. By the way, the scout is still with us. He is still a bit of a challenge, but not out of our control now. He and his parents do understand the limits.

 

Barry

 

[Vicki]

Yep, forgot the SPLs role. Don't know why I did that - our SPL has been a rock. 16 years old, level-headed and looked up to by all. Still 16, but generally a really good guy.

 

I would think your SPL should at least be kept in the loop and part of any discussion you had with the PL.

 

Vicki

[FScouter]

These kinds of situations will always arise, though maybe not to this level of severity. The life lesson I want to impart to boys is that in our patrol, in our troop, and throughout our entire lives, there will always be a person we will have trouble working with. It may be a boss, a co-worker, a family member, a teacher, a neighbor over the back fence, someone in the community, an elected official. We must find ways to work with difficult people. Wishing them away into the cornfield is never an option.

[anarchist]

Balding Leader,

 

How good is your SPL?

 

Four years ago I watched one of our SPL's handle this problem...without any counseling fom our SM...he invited the patrol to the next PLC (without the presence of the ostracized scout) He allowed the patrol to participate in the meeting and when the new business section came up he asked the biggest and most likable boy in the partol to wait out side and 'sent' the unaware SM to keep him company...for the next three or four minutes nothing was said...at all...then he started a discussion about what the boy in the hall might be feeling, having been sent out of the room and not allowed to participate...He let the boys know that they had let not only him (SPL) down but let themselves down by not living the scout law and by not coming to him when they felt overwhelmed...He then brought the boy back into the room and continued the discussion... He finished by letting them know in no uncertain terms that this was HIS troop and they could not 'kick' the boy out...and he expected them to think of the boy as a little brother who needed help...and he then offered to spend as much time in their patrol as needed to help...it worked for many months. The boy was still a problem but the scouts knew they needed to step up to the plate and try to be a friend not a judge... I was astounded and awed by this boys ability (he suffered debilitating headaches frequently and still had the compassion to help others)

 

However, sad to say, at summer camp that next summer their 'little brother' pulled his pocket knife out and threatened to 'stick' another scout...

 

but try to help these boys see the effects of shunning...and that there are better ways...

Incidentally, my oldest son was in that patrol the SPL had to 'work on'...and they learned well, especially my son...when later they were faced with a 'problem' child...they elected him patrol leader (even though he was really not running) that way he had to 'answer' to the SM, SPL and others... actually turned the guy around!

good luck....

[dsteele]

If you can find someone with a copy of the old BSA video "Ages and Stages," which came out with the Ethics in Action program in the early nineties (okay I'm dating myself again)

 

The tail end of the video contains a video for Boy Scout age kids that goes into exactly this kind of a scenario. It can be an excellent starting place for a PLC discussion and a guided discovery. The portion of which I speak is only about 10 minutes long.

 

The program was never very popular. I'd wager that whoever keeps your video library in your council service center can find a copy and dust it off for you.

 

Unc.

[Fuzzy Bear]

BL,

 

You have my attention:

 

"Great kid, nice family, he just deals with issues that he can not be held responsible for."

 

"great guy and worth every bit of effort we can muster; well then.."

 

"The behavioral issues are beyond a SMC and are being dealt with by professionals."

 

If the young man is "not responsible" for his behavior,

If the SM cannot handle the behavior,

If professionals are dealing with the behavior,

then a PL will be in over his head.

 

The adults in this situation are lacking a clear understanding of their own knowledge and have given responsibility to a young person that will deal with the behaviors the best way he can.

 

Simply stated, it is knowing one's limits that is important. You have defined your own answer.

 

FB

 

 

 

[alligator]

Hi Everyone!

 

Thanks for all the sincere and wonderful input on this. I realized from some of your comments that it is really hard to convey all of the details of a situation in a forum post. I really dont know why you all could not just read my mind and instantly know everything that I know! ;-)

 

Those of you who identified the fact that we are all in over our heads are on the money there! I am guessing though that scouting should be a little about being in over your head. It is nice to know that all of you that took an interest are part of the rope that is standing by at the ready.

 

Here is how thing have turned out so far. I had a SMC with the PL, very open and I listened intently for input. A complicating factor I hadn't considered is that we have just completed recharter and have had some scouts drop out as well as new ones added. The PL thought he needed to keep his patrol at a headcount of 6. With the addition of a couple of new scouts he was at 8 and took it upon himself to thin his ranks of the patrol's least favorite members. So that was an easy misconception to put to rest.

 

We had a really good chat (basically me asking leading questions and letting the PL talk through the answers) about being inclusive, working with our fellow scouts even when they may not be our best friends. Setting boundaries for our challenging scout and letting the PL realize that his patrol does not have to endure behavior outside of those boundaries. I then reviewed our previous SMC and discussed the techniques that we had identified to help the PL and his patrol function.

 

All in all, I think we are on a good track. The PL and I have agreed to meet with the PLC first and then the SPL will meet with him and his whole patrol, including our challenge and discuss those appropriate boundaries for behavior for everybody. We are heading into summer; we will see how it all works out.

 

Thanks again!

BL