invincible_guy Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 I'm a PL aged 14 in my troop in Hong Kong. I really love scouting and I have many badges, around 20 proficiency badges...however... My SL always think that I have too much badges...and since I enter the troop...I found out that the SL is too strict, but this is not the main point, the main point is that he will ask me to do something more after I submit things for the badge, each time. I think that the things I do is already very good, and much higher than the standards listed in the book Scout Training Scheme, which here we use in Hong Kong. This really discourages me to have more badges, and I learn from the progress I earn badges. What can I do? I'm a patrol leader, I need to courage my memebers to get more badges, learn more skills! If not even me myself is happy with this, how can I courage my members to do that? I'm actually one of the seniors in the troop... Please give me some advices. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWBPD Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Mr. Invincible, I know nothing about the program in Hong Kong but here in the US, requirements cannot be added beyond what is stated. I would suggest you sit down with the SL and discuss it. Don't be accusatory, you just want to express your feeling that you are being singled out for more work than others and you want to undertsand why that may be. Be friendly and courteous and I bet your SL will back-off in the future. It may be that your SL (is that an adult or scout?) thinks very highly of you and he wants to see you put forth greater effort because you can do it. Don't let it discourage you...you are learning more valuable lessons for life than just a badge. WWBPD Deut. 23:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eamonn Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hi and Welcome to the forum, Most of us are really that sure on how Scouting in Hong Kong works. I know at one time it was very similar to Scouting in the UK. I don't know if this is still the case? In England in order to earn a Proficiency Badge, in most cases you had to work with the Badge Examiner. There were three types of Proficiency Badges: Interest Badges, which the Examiner could be a little flexible with the requirements, Pursuit Badges, where you had to do and understand different activities in order to earn the badge and Service Badges, where the Examiner really had to make sure that all the requirements were met. Could it be that you are now working on the more difficult Badges and that because these seem more difficult you are just having a hard time with them? Scouting is a strange game, all of us in every country promise to do our best, when we think we have given our best it comes back and challenges us to do better or try harder. While some people know us and have a good idea of what we are capable of, the truth is that the only person who knows if we have really given our best, is ourselves. Some people go through life only doing the minimum that is needed, they don't break any of the rules but they never take that extra step. They are good people, but with a little more effort they could be be great people. Could it be that your SL is trying to push you in order to move you from just being good to the next level. If you think that you are being treated badly or what is happening you might want to have a chat with your SL. You will need to pick the right time and place, you will need to keep your cool and be polite and respectful. If you are not comfortable with talking to the SL maybe you could try talking with the GSL. What ever happens, don't give up Scouting is not only about badges you along with your Patrol are supposed to be having fun, try and look on the bright side of things. Eamonn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invincible_guy Posted November 22, 2004 Author Share Posted November 22, 2004 Thanks for your reply Scouting in HK is similar to England, yet we have another type of badges, the instructor badges...like...if I teach another scout swimming, and he pass the swimmer badge in interest group, I get the swimmer instructor badge, it's just like that. hmm...I think I have talked to my SL before (he's 26, he was still rover scout last year), and I always think that I am too young and have lots of time to do for badges, so he always add things after I finish one thing, perhaps to make the time for that badge longer. And i really don't like this, once I know much about that badge, or I'm interested with that badge, why do i need to wait till I'm older? I'm nearly 14.5 years old and I am old enough to learn or to be examied on badges...the badges I requested for examing for. The GSL still thinks that my SL gives badge too easy, I just don't have a say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invincible_guy Posted December 29, 2004 Author Share Posted December 29, 2004 help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Bear Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Dear I.G., You implied that your SL is being unfair but that may not be the case at all. There may be another explanation for the SL's actions. You may want to address this issue with your parents and later arrange a meeting with the SL, your parents, and yourself. This will allow for both sides to review any difficulties and to express things that might not have been said prior to the meeting. Take care and reserve judgment so as to safeguard your leader's right to lead as well as your rights as a follower. FB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Definitely get your parents involved as FB suggests, if you feel your discussions with the SL have gone nowhere. If there is still no improvement, then you have two choices. Suck it up and do as he requires, or seek another troop. You are gaining valuable experience (in dealing with people) that will serve you well in adulthood. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invincible_guy Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 thanks both of you....yea as SP suggested..perhaps i should just suck it up......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I don't understand how your program works, but could you instead plan the same patrol activities as required in the badges without making it a badge activity. Then the scouts could sign off the requirements if the choose. This is how I did my Webelos program. My scouts were getting pins like crazy and most of the time they didn't even know how they earned them. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invincible_guy Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 hmm very true...sometimes we do finish parts during troop/patrol activities.... but i must admit that my group/troop is already organising a lot of activities, and there are actually not much we PLs can do...I can't say that I'm perfect but i will say that i know a lot of skills, in many terms.... and i wonder if anyone can give me some comments on this... Does proficiency badges/progressive badges have anything to do with leadership? Can a scout with NO leadership be getting proficiency badges/progressive badges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozemu Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 invincible_guy, your last question is difficult to answer. Every country runs the program differently in detail but the same in general. In HK I do not know if there is a direct link between leadership and proficiency. A Scout does not have to be a leader to earn badges in any country that I know of. However a PL should develop their skills so they can teach others. Is a good leader someone who earns lots of badges? No. In your case being older and with many badges does not mean that you are a good leader. Leadership is a skill to be learned. It needs compassion, empathy, a desire to help, determination, enthusiasm etc. From what you write I think that you are trying hard to be a leader. I think that an Instructor must be able to teach all of the skills in a badge. If I teach a Scout something they must come back next week and show that they still remember how to do it. In Australia we used to have Challenge badges - they did not have any standards. A Scout had to work for at least ten hours doing their best. One Scout might collect 20 stamps - another might collect 2000 stamps. They got the same badge providing they both did their best work. Is your SL asking for your best work? Are you already doing your best? From what you write your Group and Troop organises the program. Does this mean that you (a PL) does not write any of the program? Do the adults write the program for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozemu Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Everyone please note that invincible_guy is using English as his second or third language. He might be finding your messages difficult to interpret. Please keep paragraphs short, sentances simple and avoid spelling errors and jargon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invincible_guy Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 the leaders ask for perfect work from me, perhaps. Honestly I think in terms of skills I'm doing very good and nearly perfect. but they're asking from like leadership or something, and i don't agree with things they do for sometimes. That day on bus, we played a game, one scout losed, and needed to sing a song. My GSL Group Scout Leader hold the game, and said that all scouts sing together, but we didn't take any action. Perhaps I was the eldest scout there on that car...GSL excepted me to lead other scouts to sing a scout song...namely Scout Hymn....i was already tired after the camp and didn't bother to do that~nor any other scouts want to lead singing the song... ...GSL went angry and said something that perhaps hurt me...something that i didnt agree. He said that...now you don't sing...where's your leadership? If you don't sing that song today....never shall you go to competition in the name of our group. and said that we're rubbish or something like that. finally we sang but i wasn't the one who lead...no one lead, at all. I really don't agree with what he says...first i don't agree with all singing a song because a scout lost, as i think that he himself should face the 'punishment'. second...i forgot the first sentence in the chinese version of scout hymn, how can i lead? I'm 14.5 years old and i think i have been PL for 2+ years...i didn't know what i was actually doing at first, and i think i'm doing the job of a PL since 1 year ago...It was the GSL who asked my SL to promote me to be PL...i wanted to organise programmes but always got stopped...or else, not enough support. Leaders already organised a lot of programs for the troop/group...so the ones that i organise most of the time, can only be expedition perhaps..which only senior scouts go...(note that patrol camps are hard to organise here in HK..) Our leaders (most of them aged from 16-30, ), organise programs for us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperParatus Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 "What the superior man seeks is in himself; what the small man seeks is in others." - Confucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozemu Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 You write about many different problems. Scouts should not be punished. In this case singing is not respectful toward the Scout who lost. PLs should have the most say in what the Patrol and Troop does. They should write the program. The adults make it happen. (For USA readers - I think Scouts in HK has a maximumn age of about 15 same as Australia. At 15 they would move up to another age group - probably Venturers) Not remembering the song in a particular language is understandable. Did you explain that you forgot the words? Were you respectful or did you get angry? Your leaders may be doing their best. They may think they are doing a good job. They are probably doing a very good job. But it is not what should happen in Scouts. Getting angry will not help. You are 14. If you can organise expeditions only then do that. Do it very well. Show them that you and the other PLs can organise activities. After that try asking your leaders if the Troop Council (PLs) can organise a full program. Ask the adults to give you advice, to help the Scouts learn how to organise programs. To explain SemperParatus: Change what you do. Do not wait for others to change. (I hope I did that justice SemperParatus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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