Prelude to Storming

[fling1]

This gem got buried in the other thread. With your indulgence, I'd like to focus on this a bit more...

River2k wrote:The PLC.

Our Scouts meet once a month for a PLC. They are supposed to fine tune the following month's meeting plans and then plan a rough outline of the month after that (which all follows a yearly plan done in May). The SPL has no idea what to do, even after being given several suggestions by adults. The ASPL usually takes over the meeting and tells the rest what the plan will be. The Scribe takes few notes, if any. Nobody ever sees the scribe's notes after the meeting. Campouts & other activities are given little if any consideration. The Troop would quickly fall apart without adult intervention.

The PL's don't come to the PLC with any feedback from their patrols because when they ask for feedback they get "I don't know". Patrol members know they have control over meeting plans & activities through the feedback but don't seem to care.

They plan the same games, same skill instructions, some opening/closing every month. The only time things change is when the SM or ASM get involved.

I think we're following the program but it's not making the Scouts care or take ownership of their Troop. All leadership has gone through JLT at least once. Some more than once.

I think of this stage as what comes before Storming: energizing, overcoming inertia and apathy, getting buy-in, etc. Without a sense of purpose and some ambition, no storming ever happens, and neither does anything else.

I'd be very interested in hearing about successes in lighting a fire under a previously apathetic group.

[Bob White]

What strikes me first is the phrase "The Troop would quickly fall apart without adult intervention."

 

It's as if the adults had no purpose for being there. The adults are supposed to intervene, just not during the meeting.

 

The Scoutmaster needs to be evaluating how to help the SPL in his job and providing the needed support. There are any number of reasons that the SPL is not taking the lead in the PLC. It would be difficult if not impossible for us to know from here. But what is clear is he needs help and that's why we train Scoutmasters.

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

Assuming for the moment that the adults are trying to teach the SPL how to do his job, I would say that this sounds to me like the scouts are lacking in expectations and/or accountibility.

 

Most newer adults go through this because they are learning as well. The adults are giving advice, however they may not be givng the scout the gaols or expectations. Maybe because they don't know, or they havn't yet learned how to give scouts a vision. For example, I want my SPL to follow an agenda for the meeting so he can learn how to complete everything on task and in a budgeted amount of time. Joe, you have 1 hour to get a Minutes of the last meeting from the Scribe. Officer reports for Quartermaster, and Patrol leaders reports. Then older business, new busines and finally a Scoutmaster minute.

 

In just a few minutes teach the SPL the agenda and what goes in each subject. Then let him go. Use the SPL handbook here while teaching the scout so he can go back to the book and his notes.

 

The other part is accountibility. It sounds like the adults are letting the scouts screw up, but not letting them suffer the consequenses. Nothing motivates learning more than the pressure of owning up to bad performance.

 

Joe, how did the program go tonight?

Why do you think it went that way?

What can we do different next time to do it better?

 

It kind of sounds like the adults are trying, they just haven't figured out what to teach the scout (expectation). They need to get out of the room while the scouts peform so the youth leaders feel the pressure of bad performance and as a result a motivation to ask for guidence.

 

It may be that adults first need to learn how to ask the questions to get the scouts started talking. If they are waiting for the scouts, there are little tricks to getting them to ask for help. But they can't jsut go out and save the day everytime things look bad or else the scouts just figure it doesn't matter what they do, or don't do, the adults will get the job done.

 

Remember, a troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. If you don't do a job you've been hired to do in the real world, who is going to save you day?

 

One last thing, adults have to learn as much, if not more than the scouts to motivate growth in the troop.

 

Hope this is kind of what ya'll were looking for.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Bob White]

I agree with the vast majority of Barry's post except for one important point. Please, don't leave the room. You cannot evaluate what you do not observe, You can't caoch if you are not their with him. Once the scout has reached the point where his skill level and the task allow you to delegate rather than direct, coach, or counsel, then you can leave. But the guys you described are not ready for that yet.

[dsteele]

I also agree with most of Barry's post. The only thing I would change is the size of the vision.

 

When I was a Scoutmaster (long ago) my vision was having 15-20 boys wearing full uniform at summer camp with the black Troop 725 neckerchiefs on each. In my vision (which is simply an acievable dream) the boys did right-dress-right, and front-dress-front and formed well-spaced rows. They did it at the command of the SPL, while I stood some distance away and simply beamed with pride at the boys.

 

I dreamed this vision when I took over a troop of 5. One was a Hindu who used our ignorance of his religion to his advantage to get out of tasks, one was a Jewish boy who emulated the Hindu's style of getting out of work, one was a caucasian (who was my biggest problem) who tried every trick in the book to get away from my rule of no electronics, and two were brothers who could't think outside the box -- they were good kids, but not flexible at all.

 

There was a lot of storming with that group.

 

However, when they got to the performing stage -- three years later and after adding 18 more boys, I saw my vision happen.

 

What a wonderful feeling!

 

Like Barry, I love this Scouting stuff!

 

Unc.

[Eagledad]

Thanks Bob, but here is why I stand by what I said for this troop. First, Leaving the room doesn't mean you don't monitor them. It's as I like to say, standing in the shadows. The main thing here is to get out of the scouts field of view so the act from their nature or training, not from intimidation of what they think the adult wants.

 

Second, If you are tempted by candy, stay out of the candy store. Right now I feel the adults are in training themselves. Leaving the room forces them to let the scouts perform without the temptation of interupting. It's easy to watch a program perform well without jumping in, but it takes a lot of practice to develop the disapline to let things fall apart and wait until after the activity or meeting to do your adult scouting thing. The adults need to get away from the scouts. As I said, the adults need to grow as much as the scouts.

 

One example is the PLC meeting that we talked about a few weeks ago. Leave all the adults except that scoutmaster in the hall. And as far as I'm concerned, the SM should be out in the hall as well listening allowing the scouts to do there thing. Resist walking in until the SPL comes for him. Don't worry, you won't have to wait very long. New leaders lack the skills to control the crowed, he will come and get the scoutmaster.

 

What I did for our SPL was attend his first full meeting to give some confidence and to monitor. After that, I left 10 minutes earlier to give him more time by himself. That is when he will learn the most. By the last two months, the SPL didn't SEE me unless I was called in to give a report or a SM Minute.

 

Barry

[Bob White]

In the shadows, fine. Out of the line of sight of the boys, fine. The boys out of line of your site? Not a chance at this stage. If the adults present cannot control themselves ask them to leave. But the Scoutmaster needs to be where the a ction is during troop meetings, troop activities and PLCs. You cannot direct,coach or counsel if you are not present to evaluate the action.

 

A minimum number of adults present I am all for. The fewer the better. But the Scoutmaster is a part of the PLC. He or she has 3 specific responsibilities during those meetings and they cannot be done without being in the meeting.

 

I am deeply enamored by this scouting stuff,

Bob White

 

 

 

 

 

[fling1]

This is all good advice, but I'm not sure it is helping River2k get his group motivated. When the scribe takes hardly any notes and nobody ever sees those notes (one of the examples given), the boys are being trained that the notes are not important. How do you make the notes important? How do you muster some ambition in the scribe to take his job seriously and make a difference in the troop?

A similar question can be posed for each position. If the scouts prefer to barely scrape by with dull meetings, poor preparation and less challenging outings because the alternative is to actually work at it, how do you turn that apathy into enthusiasm and effort?

(This message has been edited by fling1)

[Bob White]

First you have to overcome any personal preconceived notions that scout age youth are lazy and apathetic. Scouting is different from anything else they have ever doe (if you follow the program). If the scouts are doing what you think they should it's because they don't know what you are thinking and they do not need to. You need to know what they are thinking so that you can help direct their energy to make their ideas into plans and heir plans into actions.

 

They are telling you they need more help at this stage.

 

I spoke with River2k on the phone for a while the other day and he has a PLC coming up this weekend, lets see how things go.

 

BW

 

 

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

>>How do you make the notes important? How do you muster some ambition in the scribe to take his job seriously and make a difference in the troop?