patrol size

[evmori]

Apology accepted, Bob.

 

Nice about face, too!

[Eamonn]

Hey Unc,

Last week it was Latin and now we are going to do Italian?

Mich,

If you look around the English scouting web pages and find their "Scout Stuff" pages you will see that they are still selling Patrol Tents. Yes the entire patrol shares a tent!!

They are six men tents.

A lot of people will say that Scouting had to cross the big pond to be improved. But them there Brits did start the game.

I did at one stage in this thread try and say that we all have to be flexible. We do what is best for the Scouts. If come spring you have 12 Webelos Scouts cross over you might want to go with two patrols of six. If you only have nine you might want to go with one patrol.

You asked for what each of us thought was the patrol size we would shoot for, because you were taking a survey.

Put me down for SIX.

Eamonn.

[Vicki]

OK, I'm new here - not the cyber-world, just here. Also relatively new as a Scouter (my 7th grader just made Life and I just took Wood Badge in the fall). But for what it's worth I do want to share an experience at our most recent PACAO - we only had seven boys. Our fall attendance is always low because of soccer, football and the closing days of baseball. Coaches are not flexible, so we have to be. We did combine them into one patrol and they absolutely stepped up to the challenge, earning Honor and Merit and, as far as we know, getting the high score (795 of 800) on the events as well as lashing an incredible lamp-post. They formed a patrol and performed as a patrol, albeit a temporary one. All of our more experienced leaders who were there agreed it was the best performance they've ever seen from our troop.

 

It's all about the boys and, as someone said, turning out good adults. In the adult world, flexibility is required within the framework of law, ethics and morality. I think the same flexibility within the framework of the BSA is required too.

 

FYI - it does seem from my limited observation that 6 to 8 is a reasonably sized patrol.

 

Vicki

[fling1]

Sorry to join this late...

BW, I have a data point for you. Two years ago, we had an unusual influx of new scouts, enough for two full NSP. After one year, 6 were left. Last year, we had two new scouts, and integrated them into the remaining (now "regular") patrol. Both are doing fine.

Do I understand correctly that your preference would have been to form a NSP with these two boys?

Do I also understand correctly that it is your preference that every troop have at least 7 patrols? Meaning at least one patrol for each grade level (or age-level equivalent, if you prefer) from grade 6-12?

Are there situations where these would not be your recommendations?

Thanks for any clarification.

[Bob White]

Fling that is not what I said. Although some of it is what one person says I said.

 

Here is how the patrol method is designed.

 

There are 3 levels of patrols, not one for each age. New Scout, Experienced, Venture. when new scouts join from Webelos they are formed into New Scout Patrols, and taught the basic scout skills (Requirements through First Class rank.

 

The next year they become an experienced patrol or join experienced patrols with scouts of similar ability and interests.

 

Once the reach 14 they can become a Venture Patrol or join a Venture Patrol with scouts of similar abilities and interests.

 

If two or more boys joined I would make them a new scout patrol, teach them the basics and encourage them to recruit.

 

If one scout joined I would place him in a patrol of scouts who were similar in age and interests.

Then I would replace my Webelos coordinator and find someone who could recruite more than one scout a year.

 

Where we got into a discussion where I was extremely misrepresented was about what to do when only two Scouts from a patrol show up for a campout. The program says that they remain a patrol. they do not get merged into another and lose their indentity, leadership and, and patrol function. Two people can camp as easily as 8 if they adjust their equipment and menu to two people. My point was you do not mix teams.

 

What I am suggesting is to use and follow the patrol method.

 

B:)b White

[fling1]

Thanks, but I was not confused. I agree that patrols can camp at reduced strength, even down to 1 or 2 scouts. Regarding the "7 patrols" question, I was referring to your advice to "get back on track" in your post Sunday, 10/17/2004: 9:31:33 PM:

 

The goal is to have a patrol of new scouts enter each year as a patrol of older boys age-out.

Then again Sunday, 10/17/2004: 8:23:25 PM:

 

When a patrol shows signs of diminishing membership the idea is not to re-organize the patrol but to recruit more members into it.

I inferred from there that your recommendation is 7 patrols per troop. Did I misinterpret your meaning?

I appreciate your advice to make up a 2-boy NSP and encourage them to recruit up to full strength. But I suspect you are in a great minority here... does anyone second this recommendation? Do you stick with this approach if a patrol suddenly collapses down to one or two scouts?

[evmori]

If we only got two new Scouts I would integrate them into existing patrols and if a patrol diminished to only two Scouts I would do the same.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

I would like to know why it would be a good idea to put 2 or 3 brand-new scouts together in a "patrol." Do you really think they would have fun, and would really have the patrol experience in such a small group? Why is this better than putting both (or all three) of these boys in the same mixed-age patrol, perhaps the one with the younger experienced scouts in it?

I've certainly seen problems when new scouts were distributed to multiple mixed-age patrols--when buddies were divided, the less-interested kids didn't stay with the troop. But on the other hand, I've seen substantial cameraderie across age lines.

[Bob White]

Hunt,

I think how much fun scouts have is more dependent on the quality of their leadership and how well the Scouting program is delivered, and not on the number of scouts. How well you can implement the patrol method is a another question. It can work quite well with 6 to 8 and is much more dificult with more or fewer...but not impossible, just more difficult.

 

During that first year however the program is focused more on teaching the basic skills and exposing New Scouts to the PLC on a temporary basis. How mnay scout do you need in the New Scout Patrol to accomplish that? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Eagledad]

Hello All

 

>>What would their oldest and youngest ages be, and what would the rank spread be?>What do you think would have the biggest positive impact on growing the membership of your troop?

[dan]

Eagledad

You typed

we would put them in a mixed age patrol and that was successful for us. In our boy run structure, we viewed diversity of age and experience as a benefit and for our new scouts. Even now we try to move the scouts out of the NSPs after six months.

 

I am assuming that the we in your post are adults. Even if not, the below question still stands.

How do you handle it if a scout reads the Boy Scout Handbook, that says a Patrol should be recruiting new members, and keeping their patrol at full strength.

Do you say That this troop does not follow that part of the program or is this another one of the areas where you believe that that message is only a suggestion for a troop?

[Bob White]

I think some are confused as to why I asked the age and rank spread of the patrol. If you have 10 1/2 year olds in a patrol with 16 year olds how do you offer one program to them? What does a 10 year old and a 16 year old have in common? Virtually nothing.

 

Sure you can have older boys teach younger ones, and there is value to that. That's why we have Den Chiefs for Cubs, Troop Guides for New Scouts Patrols, and Instructors for Experienced Patrols.

 

But how can you offer a basic level program to a new scout who is next to a scout with 5 years of experience and not be either over the new scouts head or boring the older scout. Plus the older scouts have a right to expect a program that fits their physical abilities, and so does the 10 year old...and they are not the same program.

 

So if you follow the progam and have different skill levels but use mixed age patrols now you have to split the patrol up for difernt instruction periods and different activities and BINGO, there goes the Patrol Method down the drain.

 

Having three levels of patrols allows you offer a program level that fits the ability and interest of the entire patrol for all the patrols at that level. And it keeps the troop program from being the same thing over and over again each year until you bore the Scout out of the troop.

 

B:) White

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>How do you handle it if a scout reads the Boy Scout Handbook, that says a Patrol should be recruiting new members, and keeping their patrol at full strength.

[Backpacker]

OK

 

Here is my two cents worth. Like Barry we have mixed patrols, when we break for part of the meeting they go to rank appropriate activities, this also serves to allow them to interact with other troop members. On outings, competitions, etc.they work as a patrol, the older helping the younger so that the whole patrol is successful. The older guys do get to do optional outings as a group to challenge their skills. You may say that this doesn't follow the patrol method of today, but it works well. It is the same method my troop used when I was a kid. It also allow greater flexibility when you have to restructure the troop due to attrition, etc. Our retention and growth rate is in the top 5 of the council. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Backpacker]

Three years ago we started with just ten boys and two adult leaders and a mostly paper committee. Today we have over 50 ACTIVE scouts and growing every day, 25 ACTIVE ADULT LEADERS AND TRAINERS, and a involved committee of 20. Our council keeps those stats on all their units, and we have received a top performance award every year from them. Our retention is unreal, losing only one boy and all 10 original scouts are still active in the troop. The parental involvement is fantastic and all of them and the boys love the program being offered. So you can fault me all you want, I use all the methods of scouting, with an adaptation of the patrol method that is approved by the DE and SE in the council. This troop has been a blessing to the community performing all kinds of community service and received a special award from the mayor of the city. I want you to know that I do not take the credit for this unit, this has been a community effort. The older boys in the patrol help the younger ones advance quickly. We adult leaders can not believe the success but make no mistake about it,these boys are getting a top notch quality SCOUTING program. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)