New Scouts -- our cup runneth over...

[Woodsmith]

I know y'all have beat this New Patrol/Mixed-Age issue into the ground -- but I need to bring it up again...

I am an ASM from a large Troop -- there are four regular patrols, each with 8-10 members, and a "Venture" Patrol with about 6-7 guys. Last month we had about 25 new boys cross-over from 3 different Packs.

Ideally, as I understand it, these new guys should be split into four different NSPs (or even five) with a Troop Guide for each and an ASM or two asigned to them. Four or Five NSPs??? Yipes! As is typical, our older Scouts are involved in many other things (High School, sports, etc) so coming up with the necessary 4-5 TGs that are willing, and capable is a definite problem.

But we'll figure it out -- that's not the reason for my post... Last year we began earnestly implementing the "Patrol Method" (not too good for a 55 year-old Troop), and to start things right, the Scoutmaster and CC selected the Patrol Leaders (4) and then had the PLs choose up their patrols in a way that ensured there would be an even mix of ages represented. It has worked well, though we still have a ways to go before we are a properly functioning Boy Lead Troop using the Patrol Method -- but we're getting there...

With so many NSPs, they cannot be absorbed into the existing patrols, which are already maxed out. My concern is -- after Summer Camp, the SM and CC plan to take the NSPs (which is currently two large patrols) and the four regular patrols and mix them up and extract 6 or 7 new mixed-age patrols. To me, this starting from scratch again totally obliterates any patrol loyalty and sense of "team" that has been created over the year. I believe the boys would be better served to stay in their existing patrols and upgrade the NSPs to regular when they are ready.

(I am taking over as SM -- so my opinion will count -- but I don't wish to start things with a power struggle).

Any thoughts/opinions/advice? Thanks!

[fboisseau]

At no time should the adults pick members of the patrols or even the patrol leaders (not the mention the SPL). My sugestion is for the boys in the New Scout Patrol once they have graduated (1 yr after joining) be allow to do one of the following 1) Join an already existing patrol or 2) Stay with their existing patrol. Keep in mind this should be each individual Scouts choice as to what they are going to do. Also keep in mind that anyother Scout in anyother patrol can move if they want to. I would just set a minimum (about 6) and a maximum (about 10) members in each patrol and let the boys move as needed and by their choice. If a patrol gets below the minimum members then they need to recruite new members or move to other patrols. If they get larger then the maximum number of members suggest that some move to smaller patrols or split to form new patrols.

[VentureScoutNY]

 

That's Ok if your Troop is 55 years old and you are only now moving into the Patrol Method. Better late than never...

 

I agree with fboisseau, keep the boys in the NSP for about a year, until they are ready to join the regular patrols. When the time comes, let them choose where they would like to go. Have a minimum # set and a maximum # set for each patrol. The boys will work it out. If any problmes arise, let the PLC work it out and set rules or guidelines for what to do with the NSP members.

 

Goodluck, keep us updated!

[OneHour]

We had the same last year when 23 new Webelos came on board. We found that it is easier to follow what BSA suggested, new scout patrols. We separated them into 3 patrols, according to their affiliation (ie. pack, friends, etc.). The NSPs worked together on the Trail to First Class with two troop guides to each patrol. As you will find out, they will grow up together. As the each boy reaches first class, he has a choice of existing patrol or if the majority of NSP scouts reach 1st class together, he can stay in his patrol. So far, two of the three NSPs stayed in tact and most of them are 1st-classes, working toward stars; as a matter of fact, we are contemplating merging the remnants of the "older patrols" into these two patrols plus a senior troop youth leadership patrol and one NSP.

 

1Hour

[Eagledad]

Great Day All

 

Good answers from everyone. You have a couple of situations that make this a little more interesting. One is your troop is new to letting the scouts choose. Yet, it must start somewhere and this is as good a place as any. The other is the adults don't have experience in this situation either, so they are at the same place as the scouts. So along with the PLC, think about your goals first, then build the plan.

 

I agree with the others to let the scouts choose, but the PLC will need some help because there is no experience to base their plan. The way our troop learn to deal with large groups of new scouts was to start them in NSP, but encourage the other patrols to watch the new scouts and recruit them while at the same time encourage the new scouts to watch the regular patrols to find the one they would like to join. They can request the patrol or new scout at anytime, but we found it worked better for the PLC when a date was picked, which is one year for most troops. It happens to be six months for our troop.

 

At the same time, we encourage any scout to start new patrols. There are always a couple of scouts who think they can do better and look for opportunities. Our ASPL in charge of new scouts works with them to help them recruit full patrols, which included some new scouts. That is how we brought in large groups of new scouts without overhauling existing patrols, we just allowed the scouts to start new ones and it worked pretty well.

 

This is a learning experience for your program, so a lot of ideas are tempting. But it can still be done without the adult taking over or getting away from the program suggested in the Patrol Leaders handbook. Let the boy run method work and encourage everyone (scouts and adults) to think out of the box. Set a goal of building patrols, not breaking them up. The longer a patrol stays together, the more likely it will grow and become a team.

 

Good luck and congratulations on your new scouts.

 

Barry

 

[Woodsmith]

Thanks for the feedback -- this issue seems to be one where the CC and I butt heads. He strongly believes we need to get a list of all the boys and divvy them up into 6 or 7 or however many patrols that are each consistent and equitable. And he has very logical, eloquent, and persuasive reasons for this.

I would like to leave more of the decision to the NSP boys as to where they would like to go (among the existing regular patrols) or whether they'd prefer to stick together and form their own patrol.

The problem I have with their being absorbed by the regular patrols is a question of numbers. The reg patrols are filled to capacity right now, allowing for some to move up to the Venture patrol and a couple to drop out as is bound to happen, that still only leaves 3 or 4 openings in each of the four patrols -- and I have 25 NSP Scouts!

[fboisseau]

Woodsmith,

 

I will address your two issues.

 

First about the CC chair that strongly believes that you should divvy the boys up in to 6 to 7 patrols I have some items that you can point out to him. First I would create about 3-4 NSP patrols each with their own Troop Guide. This will do two things 1 it will allow you to focus on those boys and help them get their First Class in a year (this is a goal of the BSA program since it help retention). It will also give 3-4 current boys a chance to work on the POR for 12 months. Second ask him the following question. Would he like it if someone else choose the men that he hung out with? The boys in the patrol should be your friends and people you like to hang out with. If the boys do not like their patrol mates then they will want to leave. (Trust me on this my boy wanted to quit for a while, because my troop made this mistake. I was not aware of it when it happened or I would have stopped it). Lastly run do not walk down to your Scout shop and get the Scoutmaster handbook, SPL handbook, and PL handbook. All these books when discussing patrols state that the boys select the patrol that they want to be in.

 

As for you second issue, as I stated above I would create 3-4 NSP patrols. After a year (not when a boy has earned 1st class) convert those NSP patrols to Regular patrols and allow the boys to rearrange themselves as needed.

 

[Woodsmith]

Thanks again Fboisseau --

Good suggestioins -- and I had to laugh when I neared the end of your comment -- I had JUST sat down after returning from the Scout Shop after picking up the latest SM Handbook (had several old ones), SPL Handbook, PL Handbook, Troop Committee Guide -- gotta keep those guys in their place -- and the Scoutmaster's Junior Leader Training Kit. Looks like I have some homework to do....

[NeilLup]

I have very mixed feelings on this. I certainly agree that the boys should be involved in selecting patrols. Exactly how that is done can be tricky. I remember a suggestion in an earlier edition of HBSM that the boys should each submit a list with the names of 3 or 4 boys they would like in their patrol. The SM and ASMs then use those lists to make up the patrol.

 

The reason for my mixed feelings relates to an experience when I was a boy. It was announced that patrols would be remade on a particular night. For various reasons beyond my control, I was about 15 minutes late to the meeting. I went to my regular patrol conrner and was told by my patrol "We're full now. You're not welcome. We don't want you."

 

Fortunately, my SM was alert and made sure that I had a home. But it was a sufficiently painful experience that I still remember it.

 

If the boys are allowed to make patrols in their own desires, I would suggest it is very important not to allow there to be an "Outcast Patrol" where all the unpopular boys get stuck. Or else that 5 or 6 buddies get to become a patrol and then are stuck with a couple of boys that they don't want and make unwelcome.

 

I would be very interested to learn from some of the other posters who have let the boys do it how they avoided this kind of Lord of the Flies situation.

[mikeb]

Boys can be cruel... It can be hard being in the less than popular club, trust me I know.

 

Why is it so important to not have an "outcast" patrol? I think those boys have a better chance for leadership opportunities, real friendship, and equal footing there than in a "lottery" patrol.

 

If you have 5-6 buddies, don't stick unwanted boys into their patrol (yes, it's their patrol) just to obtain the magical perfect patrol number. Seal that patrol and start a new one.

 

If you have a couple of "left overs," put them in with the patrol that is the most mature. Make sure it's understood it's only a temporary measure until more new guys join - then tell them to do some recruiting!

[hastingr]

Ah yes. We have a similar issue. 33 new boys this year... What to do :-)

 

I have seen many good ideas here. Above all, you should let the PLC decide how to do it.

 

That is the point of a PLC. Provide them with some direction and keep them focused on the task...

 

But, you are gonna end up with some new patrols. There is gonna be some mixing, and that is good. Feel free to allow the scouts to choose who goes where. You may even ask if older scouts want to join the new boys in the new patrols. Lots of options.

 

[dan]

You should read what the Boy Scout Handbook and SM Handbook has to say about patrols and how they should grow. It was an eye opener for me.

[anarchist]

Our troop is going through this and it is not pretty. We have gone from 35 to 65 in two years and expect another 20-30 this March.

We have been patrol method troop and boy led for at least 15 years...no one now remembers the 'good old days'.

We find Patrol assignements are not really a problem. Our new scout patrols stay as a unit when they finish their first year if they wish/and can. If retention is a problem we might merge two new scout patrols to make one (our troop prefers 8-10 scout patrols (works for us).

Some years we have had to allow scout led re-groups when older patrols get down to three or four active scouts (age, fumes, sports etc) but the PLC usually handles this quite well.

Activities are the tough thing for us...we have a very active outdoor schedule 16-18 events plus summer camp...and finding ways to put 60 scouts into canoes and find sites to camp (both on the river and at camp grounds is tough! and we feel things are slipping...I'll be interested in seeing how you folks do...

 

Parents support is critical but don't beat yourself up with patrol assignments use the PLC to teach each patrol that a SCOUT IS KIND and work on it...we have had several young men come to our troop with 'challenges' and after Briefing the PLC on what we adults expect them to do as human beings (not boys) I am pleasantly surprised how humane our kids can be when you have them stop and think about it...in advance. Give them time to 'figure it out' an by gosh they can do it. Left to their own devices you have many problems...be proactive teach and they will learn (usually)

good luck! and keep in touch

anarchist

[summit911]

I'm a freshman SM myself, and our troop was faced with much the same problem. Solved for now by a suggestion from the ASPL; SPL and ASPL called each boy and had them pick two other scouts they would like to be in a patrol with. Then they formed four patrols of nine scouts each, mixing older