Troop Leadership -- appoint or elect?

[patcjohn]

We have made some good friends among our fellow leaders in our Troop in the year since we joined and are uncertain as to how to proceed on this. I wondered if you all could offer some advice. Our troop has, for years, had the Scoutmaster appoint the SPL, who then chooses his APL. The other jobs are then filled by election, by the boys. We know this isn't the right way to do it but feel that our new friends on the Troop Committee might take offence if we recommended it be changed, particularly the Scoutmaster. Could any of you experienced Scouters on this Board offer your opinions on this?

[OldGreyEagle]

One way you could approach the situation is to comment to the scoutmaster that you were reviewing the scoutmaster handbook and it says in there that the troop is supposed to elect the Senior Patrol Leader and then see what he says, your next move is up to his reaction.

 

What is your role in the troop? ASM? Committee member?

 

 

[Eagledad]

You could explain that you want the scouts to use the SPL Handbook and PL Handbook which explains how the SPL is elected the same as the PL in your troop. The advantage of these books is both the scouts and adults work together from the same book.

 

Barry

[patcjohn]

Old Grey Eagle: I serve on the Troop Committee as Fundraising Chairman and my husband is an ASM, who has just finished his Wood Badge training and has a ticket to punch! All of the superb training he's just finished and learning the "Scout Way" is causing us to look more closely at things we didn't question in the past, primarily because he/we didn't know better.

[EagleInKY]

I agree that starting with an innocent question is the best entry into the matter. The answer will probably be something to the effect of a horrible SPL in the past that was elected for all of the wrong reasons. Any SM who has been that will likely have the desire to have more control over the situation. I know several that use that appoach for that very reason.

 

A happy medium that I've seen work is to allow the boys to make nominations for SPL (you can set minimum criteria if you like - many troops do.) Then, the SM approves the nominations. He has to approve at least two. This way, he still maintains some control, but the boys do the ultimate chosing.

 

The only thing it won't guarantee is him getting the one boy that he wants. But that's not the purpose, now is it? If the boys refuse to elect someone, there may be good reason.

[NeilLup]

Another "intermediate" approach that I have seen used is to have the patrol members elect the Patrol Leaders, then have the newly elected Patrol Leaders elect the SPL. Sometimes, this means that one of the PLs becomes the new SPL and that patrol must have a second election.

[KoreaScouter]

Ask the SM why they do it that way. Chances are, he's not hard over one way or the other...it's "just how we've always done it".

 

In my current Troop, all youth leaders were elected prior to my arrival. I asked why, and got "...I dunno, that's how we've always done it". Youth didn't know any different. We follow the book now.

 

I'm curious to learn what he says...

 

KS

[patcjohn]

EagleinKY is right . . We were told that this was instituted several years ago, when a couple of different guys had been elected as as SPL, and they turned out not to be good choices for that job. Our current, long-serving SM is a Wood Badger, so I know that he knows the "policy" (?) is that the SPL be elected and the other jobs be filled by SPL appointment. So, I believe he prizes the ability to choose the SPL, himself. What I'm wondering is . . do you folks think that our Troop's procedure in this regard is a "bad" one, and we should lead the charge to have it changed? Or, does it fall into the more benign category of "don't sweat the small stuff" and leave it alone?

[Be_Prepared]

This is not an answer to your question about to proceed, but I'll add something to discussion. The troop I work with has an appointed SPL. The size of the troop is 90+ boys in 8 patrols. Campouts are typicaly attended by over 60 scouts. There are 2 ASPLs, both appointed by the SM. The SPL is in position 9 months - then is succeeded by an ASPL, and a new ASPL is appointed. The leadership path is to be an ASPL for 18 months, then SPL for 9 months. Should one of the ASPL's leave - there is another available.

 

The main reason for this is the size of the troop. The effort to manage and run a troop of 90 + is no small task. Several boys have become ASPL's, only to find they did not have the time commitment to devote. They either stepped down, or asked to be skipped over for SPL.

[Fat Old Guy]

"The main reason for this is the size of the troop. The effort to manage and run a troop of 90 + is no small task."

 

Sorry, that's not a good reason.

 

[EagleInKY]

I was having a discussion last night with my Scouting mentor (aka my dad), who has nearly 4 decades of scouting experience, served at virtually every level and position and a vintage Woodbadger to boot. He swears by the SM-appointment method, for the very reason I stated. In fact, one of his former troop's is now defunct largely due to the troop electing a poor choice of SPL. When the adult leadership tried to deal with it, a political battle between warring factions of parents ensued. No one came out a winner.

 

However, I still prefer to put it - to some degree - in the hands of the boys. The method I described does that. There are probably some others that will also work.

 

Is it "bad"? Not sure if I would go that far. Does it go against the rules? Yes, I think it does. (And, the boys will find out the rules, so they could bring it up.) The concern of the approach is that the SM can pick someone that he thinks will be a great SPL, but he may not have the respect of the boys. This could work against the boy in trying to fulfill his position. If the boys elect him, you would hope they would follow him.

[hotdesk]

As a scout my concern is if the boys are leading or the adults. Is the SPL doing his outlined job or is he sitting as a puppet for the committee/Scoutmaster to use?

 

If the boys are getting to do there jobs and not have an adult do them for them then I don't think the selection process is a thing to highly be concerned about.

 

 

[FScouter]

Appointing boy leaders helps solve the "problem" of training boy leaders. It's a lot easier to select the best leader and direct his actions than it is to train some young kid that doesn't have a clue. Why should the SM make his life difficult?

[Bob White]

Electing the Senior Patrol Leaders and Patrols Leaders is about more than just running the troop.

It is about teaching scouts about the responsibility of being a citizen and the importance of electing good representatives to govern.

 

Being the an adult scout leader is not about doing what is easiest but about delivering a multi-faceted program designed to develop young men. It is not about leading "your" program, but about leading the scouting program.

 

Swearing by the "SM-appointment method" would be fine if such a method existed in scouting, but it does not and it never has. What is a part of scouting is the Patrol Method and the Leadership Development Method and they both require that the SPL and PLs be elected by the scouts. elected troop leadership is a cornerstone of the citizenship development offered in the BSA program.

 

Leadership training is the responsibility of the Scoutmaster, and it begins BEFORE the election takes place and continues afterward. To blame poor leadership on the results of the election, rather than on the leadership development training by the adults is misdirected. Patcjohn is correct, what the Scoutmaster is doing is wrong and it is not the scouting program.

 

My suggestion would be to share your concerns with the SM, and reference the proper method from the BSA resources. You will find that the Scoutmaster Handbook, Patrol Leaders Handbook, Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook, and the Scout Handbook, all state that the SPL and PL are elected by the scouts.

 

Baden-Powell said that every boy deserves a trained leader. This is a good example why. The scouts in troops that do not follow the methods of scouting are being cheated out of the real scouting experience. The promise made to them in the Handbook is not being kept and they deserve better.

 

Bob White

[acco40]

I whole heartedly agree with BW on this one. We signed up to deliver a specific program and we should do it. Just like us adults who elect ("fill in miserable bum of your choice here") we need to learn from our mistakes.