Older Scouts

[CWKitchenStaffer]

There are two older Scouts in my troop who refuse to listen to me. They crossed over from Cubs with me and are both 17. Both are Life, one has nearly completed his project and has about 6 months til his 18th B-day, and the other hasn't started his project but has almost a full year...and has a project in mind. The second one, we'll call him "Jimmy", has always been a little loud and overative. The other, we'll call him "Bobby", was doing fine until I beat him in the SPL election. I don't know if he is just jealous about the election (he was SPL for two years before me), or if he is jealous of my scouting in general. (I am an Eagle, and the local Lodge Chief) He was never like this before the last election. Any ideas for how to deal with him?

[CWKitchenStaffer]

It should be noted that "Bobby" has stopped working on his project and just fools around at Troop meetings. Forgot those things in my original post.

[John-in-KC]

Why did you run for SPL???

 

You're 17, and you report your Eagle in hand. The Scout who needs SPL the most is someone working towards Eagle. There are also plenty of 13, 14 and 15 year olds who'd like their chance at the opportunity. You holding the position holds them back!

 

Scouting offers a plethora of young adult leadership opportunities to you. Consider moving up from LEC to Section and Regional duties. Consider being on the planning committee for the 2004 NOAC. If you want to stay active in your Troop, now is a good time to become JASM ... you'll be a transitional Scouter within a year no matter what.

 

 

[Bob White]

The key to leadership is to help those you lead to succeed. Perhaps rather than tell others what to do you should be looking for ways to help them to make the most of their scouting experience and meet their goals?

 

The real leader is the one who serves others.

 

 

[red feather]

Would like a little background on your troop before anything can be commented on.

 

yis

[NeilLup]

Hello CW,

 

You haven't said where your SM is in this. Have you counselled with your SM and with the other adults in your Troop? Even when you are 17, it is their job to help you and provide guidance and assistance.

 

Particularly when you are dealing with peers or individuals who were your peers and now are in subordinate positions (always a very difficult thing), you need the help and support of your SM.

[Fat Old Guy]

" The Scout who needs SPL the most is someone working towards Eagle. "

 

To borrow from Dana Carvey doing George HW Bush, "Baaaaaaad."

 

Leadership positions should be filled by the best qualified candidates not someone "who needs it." Rotating leadership to allow Scouts to get their tickets punched does no one any favors.

[evmori]

I, too, would like some more background. However, I do agree with Fat Old Guy. Revolving door leadership helps no one.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[CWKitchenStaffer]

My SM is a "temporary" one, who took the position out of necessity about 7 years ago when our old SM resigned for medical reasons. He has never actually had any Scoutmaster training, not even SM fundamentals, and forget WoodBadge. We have several active ASMs and several less active ones. The most involved ASM is my father, which has the potential to create a "scoutmasters kid" situation. Unfortunatley, there is no one in the wings waiting to step up to be SM, so it looks like we're stuck with him for a while. John-in-KC, the reason I ran for SPL is that the only other kid running was "Bobby", and I felt that he didn't have a fresh view of what was going on. None of the other kids could be persuaded to run.

[Fat Old Guy]

"The real leader is the one who serves others."

 

Pardon me while I . . . . . RALPH!!!! There, now I feel better.

 

Leadership is much more complex than Bob White could ever know. Based on his saccharine enhanced, new age philosophy, the best leader would be a waiter.

 

A good leader looks out for the welfare of his charges. A good leader makes use of the skills and talents of those under him to accomplish his mission. A good leader inspires his followers which makes them willing to follow his lead. Sometimes a leader has to direct which is the time that everything that he has done before becomes important.

 

I'd suggest that you sit down with Bobby, someplace away from a Troop meeting. Perhaps at the local eatery where you can have piece of pie and something to drink. There is something about breaking bread together that can defuse tense situation. Ask him about where he'd like to see the troop going. Talk aobut your vision for the troop. Look for common points. Find out what his skills and strengths are. Give him a mission. Show how he can help the troop be a better troop.

[Shell in WA- USA]

I'm sure I'll be corrected but I don't think it's your job to get your fellow Scouts to get "Eagle Rank." However, that doesn't mean that, by example, you can't encourage your troop mates to advance and excel in the program. Scouting isn't for Eagle mills but to help give the scouts confidence and experience in taking leadership, experiencing life, and in servicing others. (At least the way I see it.)

 

And I see nothing wrong in you being a SPL even if you have your Eagle rank already. If it is like you said and no one would step up. And if you had a troop election where your fellow troop mates voted you in. (If you stuffed the ballot box, that a different story! ) But who have you chosen as your Assistant? Here's your opportunity to teach others in your troop. Then when the next election comes around, they too will have the confidence to raise their hand.

 

But I agree that the wealth should be spread to the other scouts who still are trying to advance and excel. But if no one else would do it, what else can you do? But the people filling the postitions should be just as much trained and knowledgable as any adult that works in the troop. And they shouldn't get the "credit" if they didn't do the job. But that's where the adults of your troop, as well as yourself as SPL, should be stepping in and working with their counterparts so the boy is successful in his position.

 

At one time in our troop, we had a similiar problem. Only one scout was SPL for 1 1/2 years (3 terms) because no one else thought they could do it. So when they voted him in for a fourth term(6 mos) what he told them was that he would accept the position but he wanted three assistants for the term. The four of them worked together and every 2 mo period, he rotated through each of the three different boys as "top" assistant. He "taught" the Assistants what to do, helped them do a plan and let THEM run the meetings. He really was thier assistant, but they didn't know it. He also STRONGLY encouraged all scouts eligible to go through the JLT.

 

When the next election came around, he refused to be put on the ballot and listed the three assistants he had had. And that's how the story goes.

[Fat Old Guy]

Laurie,

 

Think of how much more that SPL learned by serving for two years and figuring out a way to train his replacement than if he had followed the normal model of serving for six months and then stepping aside.

 

[Shell in WA- USA]

If you meant me, FOG, (I'm Shell) yes, I agree. That was my unstated point. And what was amazing to me was that he was 16 at the time and he came to that conclusion on his own. And he sought guidance from the SM. ....I want a son like that!

 

Needless to say now, but he was an Eagle Scout with 2 palms before he left the program at 18 for college. He vows to return someday. I think he just might!

[Fat Old Guy]

"I want a son like that!"

 

I'd be happy if my son would brush his teeth.

 

 

[red feather]

CW, you pose a difficult situation.

 

A SM for 7 yrs is not a temporary position. Sad that your SM will not get training. How about the other ASMs in the troop? Any of them have extra scout training? Any that might be coached (coerced) into trying the position?

 

To my humble thinking, 'Bobby' is not your problem, the rest of the troop deserves your leadership and attention. 'Bobby' is old enough to row his own canoe and will with a little time come around and get back to where he ought to be.

 

FOG is correct on a method of talking with 'Bobby' and I pretty much agree with his definition of leadership. Bob White also makes very good points and if you combine the two you should have a pretty good definition.

 

Good luck and remember that the younger scouts are the ones who really need your leadership and experience to get all that they can out of scouting.

 

yis