New Webelos Den Leader - Pack Discipline Policy

[CaIE322]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm new to scouting and this forum. The pack that I am volunteering with has discipline issues. I need some examples of progressive discipline policies and measures as well as parent signature forms and discipline logs. The information should be pertinent to tiger cub through second year webelos. I want the kids to have fun...but the right kind of fun...if you know what I mean.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you can lend.

 

-Rich Becker

Webelos Den Leader

[ScoutNut]

As a Webelos den leader you are responsible for your den.

 

At your next den meeting discuss with your Scouts what it means to be a Scout. Have a discussion on the Cub Scout Promise and Law of the Pack, and what they mean. Go over the Boy Scout Oath and Law (something they need to do for their Webelos badge anyway), and discuss what they both mean.

 

Have the BOYS (with a bit of help from you) put together a Den Code of Conduct. Be sure the boys include consequences for not following the Code.

 

Another way to reinforce positive den behavior is the use of a bead jar. You have a clear jar marked off at regular intervals (marker/tape). Scouts each get to put a bead in the jar for doing something good (being trustworthy, helpful, kind, etc), and take a bead out for behavior that is not good. This can be tied in with what the boys decide on for their Den Code of Conduct / Consequences. When the beads reach one of the marked levels the den gets something special. This can be a visit to the nearest ice cream shop for mini cones, a trip to a park, a pick from a box of $1 store toys, anything cheap and fun.

 

If there is a problem with everyone talking at once, all of the time, many dens use a Talking Stick. This is a decorated stick, or any other object that the boys decide on. Only the person holding it is able to speak. Everyone else should listen until it is their turn with the Talking Stick.

 

Remember, it is the job of the PARENTS to discipline their own children. It is your job to work WITH the parents to help the boys achieve the 10 purposes of Cub Scouting.

 

You can tell the rest of the den leaders at the next Pack Leaders meeting about your den's Code of Conduct, and any other things you are doing to help with den discipline. Let them know how they are working, and suggest to them that they give it a try in their den's too. For Pack meetings, some Packs use a traveling "Cubbie" award. The den that has the best behavior, best attendance, most Scouts in uniform, etc, is awarded the "Cubbie" at the end of the month's Pack meeting. They get to keep it at their den meetings for the next month. At the end of the year, maybe there could be a streamer for the flag of the den who has earned the "Cubbie" the most times that year.

 

However, as a den leader, you are not responsible for telling other leaders how they must handle discipline in their dens.

 

I see no need for signature forms or discipline logs. Get the Scouts invested in acting like Scouts and the parents invested in helping their kids grow.

[Basementdweller]

Discipline......

 

All of the positive re-enforcement things mentioned in the previous post help. Another thing that helps is a quality program that the boys are interested in. Fast paced, active, fun remember the boys have sat in school all day.

 

If you have a specific problem, get the CM involved and have a conference with the offending youth and his parents. Interestingly enough, some of our rudest young men are the ones with parents present at the meeting.

[CaIE322]

Thanks ScoutNut these are great ideas. I will use them. I wholly agree with everything you have said...especially,"Get the Scouts invested in acting like Scouts and the parents invested in helping their kids grow." However, I still like the idea of having a discipline record. It mimics what they will face at school and at their future employment. I believe it teaches accountability which could be perceived as part of the "character" pillar.

 

Basementdweller, have you seen our pack or something? Parents just watch their little darlings smart off to adults and manhandle other kids. I'm not old enough to have enough perspective on this but it would appear that there is a real widespread lack of parenting happening these days that was not there when I was a kid.

 

Anyway, thanks for the advice. This will help a lot. Take care.

[Basementdweller]

Our pack is in a large urban area, most of the boys are from broken homes. Single mom's, grandparents raising them. No or disinterested Fathers. Most of the mom's who are den leaders work and just won't deal with the young men and sibs at the meeting.

 

I set the example by disciplining my own at the meeting. Both of my have had their noses in the wall in front of the Pack and den for poor behavior. Several other parents have followed suit, I support them when the chose to discipline for poor behavior.

 

Another thing that helps is to make sure the den leaders are not addressed by their first names by the boys. Mr. Lane, Mrs. Brown, Miss Jones. shows authority, much like a school teacher. That made an amazing difference.

 

The problems you describe are common. I would have a parent meeting, let them know the expectations. I have had some success with it.

[shortridge]

Codes of conduct?

 

Discipline logs?

 

Signature forms?

 

Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I don't see any need for any of that mumbo-jumbo.

 

Kids know how to behave. They know what's right and what's wrong. If they're disrupting the meetings and they don't respond to what you say, you talk to their parents. If that doesn't work, they're gone. Plain and simple. It's the parents' job to discipline the kids, not yours.

 

I'll agree that discipline logs, conduct codes, signature forms, etc., all mirror what the boys will be encountering in school. That's one of the main reasons why they SHOULDN'T be used in Scouting. The Promise and the Law of the Pack should be enough. These kids are subjected to enough boring legalistic garbage when they're stuck behind a desk.

 

I served as a den chief for two dens. The den that used the silly "Conduct Candle" system and received regular leader lectures on behavior had far more discipline problems than the den that took the boys outdoors and kept them active. Have good programs and they'll be having too much fun to act up.

 

If the issue is with the pack meetings, there are a lot of threads here about keeping meetings focused, offering fun program and even how to arrange a room that might help. I agree that because of the sheer size of those gatherings, they can easily slip into chaos if the Cubmaster isn't on top of his or her game.

[ScoutNut]

A den Code of Conduct - which the BOYS help to develop - that mirrors Cub Scouting's 12 Core Values (which mirrors the Boy Scout Oath) is NOT mumbo jumbo. It is a way for us to achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting.

 

We are talking 1st thru 5th graders here, NOT middle thru high school kids. They need the reminders to LEARN how to BE a Scout. They are, after all, still learning the game.

 

Again, these are boys, in 1st thru 5th grade CUB SCOUTS. This is NOT school. They are NOT in a full time (or even part time) job. We are talking CUB SCOUTS!! There is no need for the dreaded "permanent record" to follow them into Scouting. That is NOT Scouting.

 

CalE322, might I suggest that you take some BSA training to understand what Scouting is all about.

 

If your Pack is having discipline problems during their Pack meetings then perhaps you should bring this up at the next Pack Leaders Meeting. Your Cubmaster (CM) needs to remind the parents that BSA does NOT stand for Baby Sitters of America. PARENTS are responsible for disciplining their own kids. It also helps if the parents sit WITH their kids at the Pack meetings.

 

 

 

 

[Twocubdad]

I was never much for the candles, jars, ropes, doo-hickies hanging from the den flag, etc.

 

I'm a big fan of the Law of the Pack. No one pays much attention to it anymore but there's a lot of good stuff there you can tie to behavior: A Cub Scout follows Akela, A Cub Scout Gives Good Will, etc.

 

I did seven tours as a den Leader, three as Cubmaster and five as day camp director. Whether I was dealing with 8, 80 or 400 boys, my discipline policy was always that in order to get to do the thing Cub Scouts do, you have to behave like a Cub Scout. In other words, either behave or go home.

 

Most boys -- and parents! -- eqate this to being suspended from school. That's fine in the short run. If they're freaked out at the idea of being sent home it helps keep them in line. But in practice, the few times I sent a boy home I tried to down play it. "Billy, I've asked you three times to settle down but you're still misbehaving. You seem to be having a bad day so I'm going to ask your mom to take you home now. We'll see you next week and hopefully we'll have a better day."

 

The bottomline is behave or go home.

[CaIE322]

Basementdweller may be the closest to sharing my situation. Booting the kids from cub scouts as short ridge suggests does not do anyone any good. By documenting behavior and using that documentation as a tool for discussion, we can help the scout to better himself. I agree with the use of the Law of the Pack, the pillars, and other edicts of scouting as standards by which scout behavior should be measured. I agree with the involvement of parents. Unfortunately in many cases they are no better than the children from which these problems arise. In a perfect world, an ideal setting, maybe 30 years ago, all of these suggestions might work. But today, in my situation, with the parents and kids that I have right now, I need a discipline policy and documentation. I like the idea of having the scouts create it and I think I will do that. I will lead by example and "do my duty, to God and my country, to help other people, and to obey the law of the pack."

 

BTW ScoutNut your comment "CalE322, might I suggest that you take some BSA training to understand what Scouting is all about." Did not see anything about any of this in the FastStart, Webelos Den Leader, or Youth Safety. I assume you have a suggestion?

 

Thanks to all for the thoughtful posts,

[ScoutNut]

Yep, I do have a suggestion - If you want to keep your Scouts then do not treat them like they are in school, or the army.

 

Robert Baden-Powell (founder of the Scouting Movement) stated that Scouting is a "game with a purpose". Our job is to teach the boys that game, and play it with them. You generally will not get boys to play the game if you are holding a club over their heads.

 

The Webelos program is mainly den and Scout centered. Parents are not involved with their Scout in the same way they were in the younger Cub levels. However parent involvement is still important. Parents make great Activity Badge Coaches. Parents should be going on den campouts and Troop visits with their Webelos. The more you can get the parents to buy into Scouting the better the experience for your Scouts, and the better behaved they will be. Holding den parent meetings help to get everyone working together on the same page.

 

Communication between you, as the Webelos den leader, and the parents is very important.

 

You need to capture the boys attention by giving them a FUN, ACTIVE, HANDS ON program. Boys act up more if they are bored.

 

Give them responsibility. Webelos is a transition to to Boy Scouts. If you help the boys take more control of their den, they will not only behave better, but it will be a good intro to what they will find in a BS Troop.

 

Boys need to learn self control. A set of den rules that THEY help to create is one of the best ways to do that.

 

These things were all covered in the Webelos Den Leader Specific training you took.

 

These suggestions/comments are not from some "ideal", or "perfect" world of 30 years ago. These are things that have worked / are working, with dens & Packs today.

 

 

[dg98adams]

When I was DL & CM the main thing to keep Cubs from running amok was something funner (?sp) to do.

 

Before the meeting - have a physical game. Not a"riot" swamp ball, but a game that requires taking turns, co-operation, but simple.

 

Pitching washers into cans, bouncing a hand ball off the wall, corn-hole, etc.....

 

Get the game stated with a Cub before others start showing up (usually my son or a boy scout DC). Most will want to play when they show up.

 

For those that do not wan tto play, have something on a table, like word search, or some kind of "guess the animal (from tracks, clues, etc"...

 

If these kinds of activities are part of every meeting they can lead into the meeting/program theme.

 

I always said "Cub Scouting" is in "here" or at this "game" or at this "table" not out in the hall. Wanna be a Cub Scout then come on, otherwise you need to go home.

[Greaves]

I'm the Webelos DL for my son's den.

 

Some of the things I've done include over-planning the meeting. I have enough activities for 90 minutes of our meeting hour (give or take) so I can switch to something that keeps the boys busy &/or engaged. Be ready to switch it if it sucks. Pay attention to the kids so you can tell when it sucks, lol. (I have adhd, so it's a little easier for me, maybe, than some other folks, I don't know. But I can tell when the 9 yr olds are just waitin me out) Boys busy with planned program activities don't have time to push, shove or mouth off.

 

I also try to save the BEST part of the meeting for last, like when we dropped mentos into coke for our science belt loop. What kid doesn't want to explode coke, right? So when the meeting gets a little unruly, I can say, "Gosh, fellas, we might not have time, since we're spending our time waiting for all y'all's conversations to finish."

 

You don't need to give a written reprimand to a nine-year-old. You say, "That's not appropriate (or acceptable) behavior. Knock it off." He can learn about written reprimands when he grows up.