Ryon_Nayr@email.com Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 only one patrol leader member of our 2 patrols and 6 scouts are Going to our weeklong summer camp. Is it fair to have that one patrol leader responsible for scouts not in his patrol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I am not sure I have the logistics down, are you saying there is one patrol leader and 6 other scouts going to camp, or with the patrol leader there will be six scout? Actually as I was typing this, it doesnt really matter, the Patrol Leader will be responsible for either 5 or 6 scouts. I dont see any problem with this even if some or all of the scouts are not in the patrol leaders natural patrol. My response to the Patrol Leader would be to remember the scout law, and be Obedient to the needs of the troop and Friendly/Courteous/Kind/Helpful/ Cheerful to members not of his patrol. He would not be and Loyal to his brother scouts (even those not in his natural patrol)to let them drift through summer camp with his leadership. If the patrol leader doesnt want to use his leadership position and skills taught to him by the troop, he is not being very trustworthy. Have a good time at Camp Ryon I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Ryon, We have the same situation this year. My ASPL will be the acting SPL. My SPL has a family situation. The PL will be in charge of the Patrol. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle90 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 We will be having 2 patrols of 5 scouts plus the Patrol Leader. We almost always have to make provisional patrols for summer camp, as the numbers don't always work out that a natural patrol can be used. But it always seems to work out. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The reason boy leadership works is that the boys have chosen the leader. To take an elected leader from one patrol and make him the PL of another is courting disaster. If you must do a provisional Patrol I highly reccomend you let the scouts have a new election to choose their own leader for that event. If the Govenor of Iowa can't make a meeting you don't send the governer of Missouri to fill in for him. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 ::best Jim Nabors impression doing the charactor Gomer Pyle:: ShaZZammm, Mr White, have the provisional Scout Patrol elect its own Patrol Leader? What a concept, let the boys decide who will lead them? Why thats downright blashphemy... Wait a minute... something stirring deep inside... whats that voice number 3, "boy run troop?" ...voice number 5, you think this is a good idea? Back to Normal...(such as it is) Ok, I submit to voices 2-5, will all forum members ignore my previous post and follow Bob Whites advice. Thats why I love this place, you never know what you are going to learn, especially when its stuff you know you should have known in the first place. Ryon, have your group elect a patrol leader for Summer Camp, then no one gets stuck with the job, he actively sought it out. May be the taste of leadership a scout needs to spur him on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Bob makes a good point, but letting an existing PL handle a provisional is not the wrong way to go. This could help the PL hone his leadership skills with different Scouts. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 But consider this Ed, he is only a leader to those who elected him. The scouts from another patrol have no investment in following his lead. This PL may be the best person for the job in his own group, but perhaps due to personaliy conflicts, skill levels, friendships etc., he would never have been chosen for that role if he were a member of this other group. For the leadership dynamics of the Patrol Method to work the boys must have the empowerment to select their own leadership, otherwise you set this boy up for failure. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver-shark Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Ryon Is the APL of the patrol with the missing PL going to camp? He should be the first one to step into that position. I've always been against merging patrols for one time only situations. It makes it really difficult to maintain patrol spirit if the members are changing from time to time. As long as there are at least 2 people in a patrol I would suggest that you leave it alone. Have the APL step in as the PL or have the PL appoint someone, or have those going elect one for the week. In any case, let the patrols maintain their patrol identity. It's best in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 "The scouts from another patrol have no investment in following his lead. " Might not be true. This PL might have been the ASPL or SPL so the other patrol would have an investment in him. And whether or not they elected him, it is their duty to follow him since he is their PL for the week. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM406 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I agree with BW and have experienced this failure first hand. At my former Troops summer camp last year, the Scoutmaster decided to have a rotating SPL. Three Scouts had just returned fresh from a Council sponsored week long JLT course. So he decided to have each one of these Scouts be the SPL for a 48 hour period to demonstrate their new found Leadership skills. The troop gave each new SPL a terrible time; one Scout was reduced to tears because the Troop constantly just blew him off and ignored his request. On top of all of this the Scoutmaster did not step in and support his boy leadership. He possibly has ruined these boys for future Scout leadership. This incident coupled with others prompted my family and me to find a different Troop. It has been a very vivid lesson for me, the troop, or patrols will always elect their leadership no matter how temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 SM406, It seems the reason this failed was the SM was the one who decided who would be the SPL, not the Scouts. Even though the SM picked the SPL, the Scouts should have done the right thing & followed his leadership. The SM was at fault by not letting the Scouts choose their leader and then not backing those he chose. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 "Even though the SM picked the SPL, the Scouts should have done the right thing & followed his leadership." You can expect that kind of behaviour from adults, but kids are not built that way. The recocognition of a group leader within a small group is a natural instinct at this age. If you did not holsd elections or have a PL position and put 6 boys in a group together for a few days a single scout or a pair would be selected by the others. It is a natural socialization process that takes place in children. The scouting movement realizes this, and that is one of the reaasons that the junior leadsership is elected and not assigned. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 If this had been done by the book, and the boys of this provisional patrol had been allowed to elect a PL, would it have been acceptable to exclude any of the boys who were currently serving as an PL in a regular patrol from the election, thereby allowing others to have the leadership opportunity?(This message has been edited by fotoscout) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 There is no SPL in a regular patrol, however by holding an election you give every boy an equal opportunity at being the leader. So there would be no need to restrict anyone. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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