Getting scouts to be quiet at night

[Eagledad]

>>I don't hardly hold with this apparent modernistic liberal trend of allowing children to be in complete control of everything they do.

[RuddBaron]

I cannot imagine that B-P would have taken any nonsense of the Scouts. Photographs of him that I have seen at Brownsea show him instructing Scouts...and his mouth is open. An adult being seen is a perfectly valid way of maintaining order, and is often more effective than speaking. A good ability to use one's eyes is often more effective than speaking.

 

Who on earth said anything about preventing Scouts from having experiences? Yes, we should give the children respect. Respect is a two-way street. But, they (and we) have to realize that they are still CHILDREN, a period in which they grow gradually into adults. Yes, an adult deserves to be treated respectfully by a child just because he is an adult. That is how society works. Furthermore, children need adults to guide them in an age-appropriate graduated system of ever-increasing nresponsilities and privilages. Ever wonder why children with a poor family environment often turn out to be problem adults? If children don't need adult guidance, again I ask why adult leaders are needed, why we bother having teachers in schools, or why we don't let 10 year olds move out on their own.

 

A simple solution to this, dear boy, is that you do it your way, and I do it mine.

[Eagledad]

>>If children don't need adult guidance, again I ask why adult leaders are needed, >A simple solution to this, dear boy, is that you do it your way, and I do it mine.

[acco40]

Instead of doing your way or my way, why, as Scouters, don't we both try to do it the Scouting way!

 

Sometimes words like discipline, leadership, etc. are hot button words because individuals have many different definitions.

 

Ed, if the SPL sets a time for taps and lets it slide it says that he does not value setting a strict time for taps.

 

Often, the question I see being raised boils down to "When do we allow the Scouts to fail?" The beauty of Scouts, as Barry and a myriad of others have pointed out, is that it is a SAFE environment for the boys to experience failure. I say let them burn the eggs, stay up to late, have bad menu planning, etc. These are great teaching tools!

 

[RuddBaron]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Letting them fail is GOOD!!! Houston, we have agreement! In some cases setting them up to fail is a good learning tool as well if highly controlled and not done sadistically.

 

The more I listen to you, the more I get the feeling we're trying to say the same thing, just coming at it from two different directions.

[dan]

Rudd

Yes, I also beleive that everyone is very close to saying the same things. But the little minute gap that is separating us is very deep.

So, instead of assuming this time I will ask.

So are you saying that if scouts are doing a good job you will somehow set them us for failure?

 

Do you think it is okay for scouts to joke around with leaders? Your message come off like you would control everything we an iron fist. Sometimes with this format it is hard to tell.

 

What is your capacity, do you only work with the district or are you also with a Boy or Cub Scout troop/pack?

 

I also do not consider a Boy Scout a child, as I work with the scouts I am not thinking, look at those children playing with fire, I see Boy Scouts, starting a fire, and cooking a meal over it.

 

[evmori]

acco40,

And since the SPL didn't value setting a strict time, what does this tell his Troop?

 

Ed

[acco40]

That he doesn't value a strict time! (Sounds somewhat like me.)

 

Sometimes time is an important factor, such as when MB classes are held at set times. Other times, it is not. I'm amazed when our troop camps out in the middle of nowhere and we are scheduled to recreate the following day (swim, explore, leisurely hike, etc.) and I always get the "What time are we supposed to get up" question. My answer is usually along the lines of "when I wake up." Individuals are different. Some like a strict detailed planned out affair. Others are more laissez faire about it.

[evmori]

aco40,

But when time is important and the SPL isn't strict about it, doesn't that tell the rest of the Troop "Do whatever you want"?

 

Ed

[fboisseau]

evmori,

Yes that is what it tells the Scouts in the Troop. The thing is that the responsibility for making sure the Troop is on time is not really yours, but the SPLs. What you need to do is to get with the SPL and explain to him that when he does not enforce the schedule what the ramification are. Such as that the Scouts will not respect his time tables in the future when they really mean something, like the boat leaves at 1:00PM no matter who is aboard or not aboard.

[evmori]

SO if they miss the boat a 1, this SPL might be done!

[RuddBaron]

>>> So are you saying that if scouts are doing a good job you will somehow set them us for failure?

 

Not generally. When I say "set them up for failure" at that age, I mean more along the lines of adding little "extras" that might challenge them a bit more. It takes practice to get it right so it doesn't totally frustrate the kid. Generally if they are doing a good job, I say let them do a good job in peace.

 

>>> Do you think it is okay for scouts to joke around with leaders? Your message come off like you would control everything we an iron fist. Sometimes with this format it is hard to tell.

 

Of course they can joke around with leaders, but there is a time and place for everything. I certainly did my share of joking around as a Scout!

 

>>> What is your capacity, do you only work with the district or are you also with a Boy or Cub Scout troop/pack?

 

Currently I'm strictly District and OA.

 

>>> I also do not consider a Boy Scout a child, as I work with the scouts I am not thinking, look at those children playing with fire, I see Boy Scouts, starting a fire, and cooking a meal over it.

 

They are still children, but they are not ORDINARY children. That's what the Scouting program does for them. Sure, if they prove themselves, it's fine not to treat them as ordinary children. This is part of the graded increase of responsibilities and rights I mentioned. By the time they hit 18, they generally should be considered a peer of sorts.

[red feather]

Getting back to the theme.

 

Some time back on an overnight the acting SPL faced with boys who would not quiet down, asked them if they would want Mr. (me) to wake them up in the morning with song?

 

Now I have been accused by some to be overly cheerful on some mornings. And some say I need at least one bucket to carry a tune. But that is all hearsay. Or so I have been assured.

 

To my astonishment, the camp got quiet.

 

yis