Patrol Leaders Council Meeting

[Bob White]

In your opinion at what point or points does the Scoutmaster or other adult give input during a PLC where the following items are discussed or decided.

 

A) the program theme for the next month is canoeing. Hawk has opening ceremonies for the month, panthers agree to do closing ceremonies. The troop is going canoeing on the last weekend. They boys have heard about a river 5 hours away that they have never canoed before so they decide to go there.

 

B) They decide on topics to learn at troop meeting and divide responsibilities among patrols.

 

C) They decide they are tired of summer camp and want to go to the BSA High Adventure Canoe Base instead. The troop Guide points out that the new scouts would not be eligible and need summer camp but he would rather go to the canoe base.

 

D) They decide to offer both options to the scouts. But they still want to use a different summer camp.

 

E) Popcorn sales is coming up and the scouts want to use profits to reduce the trip and summer camp cost. In the past the troop has put 60% into the troop fund and 40% into scout accounts. this time the boys decide it should be 80% to the scout accounts and 20% to the troop treasury.

 

F) The Scouts decide to stay up till 4am on the August campout to watch the Purseus metorite shower that starts at midnight and runs till dawn.

 

G) The guys decide that next year they should go to Hawaii to witness a total solar eclipse.

 

H) They decide that any scout not in a correct uniform next week has to push a penny across the gym floor with his nose.

 

I) Jimmy is a nerd, nobody likes him why does he have to be the troop. He doesn't like to camp, he's not good at games, why does he even come? They vote to have Jimmy leave the troop.

 

 

[dan]

A) Schedule it! Make it so!

 

B) They decide on topics to learn at troop meeting and divide responsibilities among patrols.

Suggest Troop Guides do the traiing.

 

C) Suggest that the 2nd one is a high adventure and not a summer camp, set up a high adventure.

 

D) Make it so, you do know who the leader to work with dont you?

 

E) This has to go through the Committe, bring back the finical records of what else the troop would have to give up to do this, new gear, badges, pay more for campouts, etc.

 

F) Not a thing.

 

G) Make it so, you do know who the adult in charge of High Advetures do you not?

 

H) I would ask how this fits the Scout law or Oath.

 

I) Same as H.

 

 

[sst3rd]

We have a small Troop with limited resources, so I'll approach each as such.

 

A)From the beginning. Facilities, equipment, money, transportation, qualified trip leaders/guides..... but this should have been planned at the Annual Program meeting last August.

B)No input unless topics are inappropriate.

C)Limited by adult leadership, but could use the opportunity to draw in other qualified adult leaders.

D) Got the leadership????

E) Will the change mess up the established Troop budget?

F) Compromise, because they're going to get up at 7:00 AM anyway(standard operating procedure).

G) Sorry, again limited by adult leadership, and offer alternatives.

H)Inappropriate and explain.

I)It's a moot point, and if it still comes up, have a quick conference with SPL. Drop it as quickly as possible.

 

I'm not sure why I bothered responding, Bob's just going to shoot it down. Hey, I'm okay with that. Life's too short, and our Troop will continue as is anyway............

[Bob White]

Ouch sst3rd

 

Oh well I probably earned that after getting dragged into some some rather un-fun conversations. No, I just wanted to get into a topic that actually had a more positive slant. is there a purpose to the post? sure, but doesn't every first post have a purpose to it?

 

Do I have a positive result in mind? absolutely?

Would it be so awful if something good came from this?

 

Bob White

[KoreaScouter]

1. Make the resources available to help them plan the activity, the resources including the brains of their adults as coaches.

 

2. Good; encourage the SPL and PLs to follow through to make sure that what gets assigned, gets done.

 

3. Try to help them find a win-win; for example, does summer camp and the HA trip need to be the same week? If not, he can do both.

 

4. Nothing wrong with that; variety is the spice of life.

 

5. I'm okay with that, too. I might discreetly check with the treasurer and see what that would do to the bank account, and ensure the PLC knows that if it's a problem, the troop may need to conduct a fund-raiser at a later date to make up for the loss.

 

6. The name alone (Perseus meteor shower) sounds cool -- how many chances does a fella get to witness that? Give 'em a later wakeup next morning...

 

7. I'm writing this from Hawaii right now...anything they needed to do in order to get here would be worth it! And, I'd be in there helping them do it, too!

 

8. A-ha, trick question! No hazing.

 

9. I'd give the SPL a few seconds to jerk the rest of them back to the Scout Oath/Law...if he didn't, and nobody else did (unthinkable I hope), I'd do it for them. There's a place and a role for every Scout; all have a talent for something that will benefit the troop. Challenge is to identify it and capitalize on that talent...that's how teams are built.

 

KS

[evmori]

A)Give them what they need to make this happen.

 

B)Excellent! Make sure they have the proper tools need to teach.

 

C)Suggest attending 2 summer camps - 1 regular & 1 high adventure. After the regular camp maybe all the Scouts will be able to attend the high adventure camp.

 

D)Make it happen

 

E)No problem

 

F)No problem

 

G)If the funds are available & the arrangements can be made, go for it.

 

H)NO NO NO

 

I)Ask how they can find a way to make him fit.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Rooster7]

A) Ask the boys if they are going to have enough support to make that trip happen. Do they think there will be enough willing adult drivers to carry the boys and their equipment to and from a river 5 hours away? Also, they need to investigate the river. Is it too dangerous or too sedate for the boys?

 

B) Without any other specifics, this sounds reasonable.

 

C) Remind the boys that summer activities should be designed with all Scouts in mind. A high adventure trip is fine, but they need to provide an alternative for the younger boys.

 

D) This doesnt sound like a problem, but the younger boys should be included in the decision process (since they will be the ones attending). Ask the PLC to poll their patrols and find out what the younger boys want to do.

 

E) Tell the boys that this change will have to be approved by the Troop committee. They need to ensure that the Troops account will have enough funding for the normal costs associated with the Troop and the yearly re-chartering fee.

 

F) Sounds okay, but they should be asked How do you plan to make up for the lost sleep? Are you planning to have a siesta in the afternoon? Are you going to have an early lights out the night before?

 

G) Great idea. Now, lets talk about how realistic that is, and what we can do if anything to make it happen.

 

H) Probably a bit over the lineeven for me. So, I agree its a form of hazing. But Im willing to argue with you and others about singing Im a little tea pot. But lets not start that debate again.

 

I) Unless Jimmys behavior hinders the way the troop functions in some way, Id never let the boys discuss an individuals personality at a PLC. The conversation went too far as soon as someone labeled the kid a nerd. Id ask anyone who had an issue with an individual to discuss it with me first before presenting the issue at the PLC. As soon as it became apparent that it was a clash of personalities, Id address it with the individual scouts involved. The PLC would not become involved unless there was a real issue that affected the entire troop. Even then, Id want to know more before allowing it to become a PLC discussion.

 

[buffalo2]

Might be that I'm reading between the lines again, but I'd like to think that the SPL was able to resolve most of these issues on his own, and perhaps that the SM would only get wind of some of them in the SPL's summary briefing or if the SM (or a wandering ASM) had cause to happen by at just one of those moments.

Just hoping that the SM has got better things to do than sit through every minute of a PLC - sounds like micromanagement to me!

Yet another reason to have your Troop Guide program working...

[Rooster7]

While the SPL runs the meeting, I believe it is important that the SM be present. Bob's last example highlights this fact. If the PLC is discussing a boy's personality and marking him for social outcast, I'd rather see the SM "nip it in the bud" before the conversation goes too far. It doesn't do the boy in question much good if the SM has an end of the meeting debrief with the SPL - the damage is already done. There are some mistakes that we shouldn't allow the boys to make. Allowing the PLC to turn a boy into a pariah is not the actions of a wise SM or an opportunity for a learning lesson. The cost is too high. Its an opportunity for the SM to act like an adult leader and to set some boundaries.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

[evmori]

Rooster,

Good to see you back! Stay for awhile!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

Hi Rooster

 

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I worked differently with my SPL Rooster. First I will start by saying that out of the thousands of PLCs I've attended, I never saw one where the scouts discussed in some way hurting another scout. I'd be curious if someone on this forum has.

 

As for always being present at the meeting, well I worked in the "teach them, trust them, let them go" style. If you don't trust your scouts to perform in an expected manner, then you train them until you build that trust. Eventually most SPLs master running meetings. The rest of the of the Patrol Leaders Council master sitting through them. The next step of building confidence would be staying out of the meeting to see how they perform.

 

I feel if adults attend meetings to prevent problems, then they are probably not allowing a lot of growth because they are afraid of the results. I am not saying that adults should not attend scouting activities because we have to see them in action to understand where they are in their growth toward manhood. I am saying for a program to grow, the scouts have to be trusted, or trained so they can be trusted. If you are afraid scouts will plot against of other scouts, then your program needs run in such a way to train your scouts until you can trust them to not behave in that manner. My scouts have run many meetings without the SM attending. Sometimes things didnt go very well, but thats what we learned from the experience.

 

Comments?

 

Scouting Cheers

 

Barry

 

[Bob White]

I'll ask that we stay on topic and discuss "at what point during the meeting the SM or other adult should intervene."

 

Although I agree with EagleDad's paraphrase (it's actually "Teach them, Trust them, Let them lead")I need to point out that the PLC is a troop activity and as such the Youth Protection policies require two adults to be present.

 

The Scoutmaster training has for decades taught that the SM is present at all PLCs and has a specific role to play, which we can discuss later. The second adult can be anyone 18 years of age or older and does not have to be a registered leader.

[Rooster7]

Barry,

 

I was addressing the example that Bob gave in his first post ("Jimmy is a nerd"). And yes, I have seen boys in real life tear down another boy (not present) in a PLC. It was stopped before it got out of hand. However, I'm confident that had an adult not stepped forward to stop the inappropriate comments, the conversation would have continued in a downward spiral. Now, I guess an arguement can be made that perhaps the adults (SM and ASMs) should have allowed the conversation to continue...to see how the boys handle the situation. But I say - the potential cost of this lesson would be too high. I understand that learning can occur through mistakes. I also understand that BSA encourages us to allow the boys to make mistakes. But we can't use that mantra for every situation.

[matuawarrior]

Open up my book and read . . .while the PLC meets. . .

 

A) Let's Go for It!

 

B) Oh-Ummhhh, read my book, while listening covertly.

 

C) Listening, listening, listening . . .

 

D) Good Job, We have the Leadership, Let's Go for It!

 

E) Not a problem, pass a note to the SPL to have the Scribe check with the Committee Treasurer. Note to myself, to talk with CC.

 

F) Suggest to SPL that First Call be moved to NLT 1000 hours and have Brunch. (our units operate on the 24 hour clock and we do metric also, old military habit)

 

G) Next year, uummmhh, Let's do it! Continue reading book . . .

 

H) Call out,"SPL!!!" Who, by now, will be reminding the Jr. Leaders about the No Hazing policy, the Scout Oath and Law.

 

I) What can he do to better the troop? Instruct the PL's to write down five positive things this Scout can do to better the unit. Narrow the list down and remind the PL's of the 4th point.

 

. . . Bookmark my book for next month.

(Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill) I've "Read" that book for 8 years and always bookmarked on the same page, "3 feet from the Gold", at every PLC.

 

Matua(This message has been edited by matuawarrior)

[Bob White]

interesting, keep going.