Patrol Elections/Membership

[CubsRgr8]

The PLC decided the existing patrols needed to have their membership scrambled. Then they decided to choose new PLs through a troop election. The new PLC will then "draft" scouts into new patrols, balanced by age and rank. Each scout is to provide the new PLC with his list of four preferred patrol mates and is guaranteed placement in a patrol with at least one of those listed. I'm not sure where this method came from and I'm a bit skeptical about its success. Comments?

[mk9750]

I wish I could help with some evidence that it will work, but I have none. But I like the idea. We tried to float the same idea to our PLC, who came close to adopting it (we didn't have the details ironed out like you have about how the "draft" would happen), but it came up a vote short. I think it's a great idea. The only drawback I can see is what I'll bet Bob White brings up in that it might strike a bit of preventing boys to patrol up as they see fit. If that is a concern, I think I'd disagree. Maybe a way to overcome that would be to take it to a complete Troop vote if the PLC approves. That way, the majority of the WHOLE Troop is on board with it. Not normally the way I would do things (the PLC committe should make most decisions), but this one affects everyone for a long time.

 

Please keep us posted on the results.

 

Mark

[OldGreyEagle]

Our troop did a total reorganizaiton a few months past. The PLC came up with the plan. We have enought boys for 8 patrols of 12 (I know thats huge, but beleve me, with sports, band, theatre, choir, etc. we never have a full house)

 

The troop put 12 chairs in 8 groups in our meeitng area. Then Eagle, Life and Star scouts were FREE to go to any group of chairs they wanted. The tules were no more than 3 (number based on scouts in those ranks and number of patrols) could be in a single patrol, then the rest of the scouts not in the first year program were allowed to go to the chairs. The First year scouts stayed with their troop guides. These were the new patrols. They then elected Patrol Leaders, a list of the absent scouts was read and the patrol leaders indicated who else they wanted until everyone had a patrol.

 

Thats the way we ( ahem, actually the way OUR PLC)did it

 

[Bob White]

The method of patrol configuration is a method that use to be in the Scoutmasters Handbook. By creating a graph where all the scouts names appeared in columns and then agin in the order in rows. You would take a boys name in a row and plce an X in the column of a friend he wanted to be in the patrol with. Once you had graphed the entire troop you could not only visualize the best patrol configurations but also pretty well deduce who would be elected patrol leader.

 

Where a problem is created was in not forming the patrols first, and then having patrol elections for the PLs.

 

BW

[CubsRgr8]

Part II

 

Well, here's how it turned out. Each scout in the troop voted for who they felt were the six scouts best qualified to be a patrol leader. The SPL then contacted the scout with the most votes and asked if he would serve. The SPL proceeded down the list until he had six patrol leaders. I suspect several (many?) scouts turned him down, because we didn't end up with a single high school age PL.

 

Then the draft took place and every scout found out last night to which patrol was his. The patrols seem balanced in age, rank and friendships, in that order. My son now belongs to a patrol led by a 7th grader who recently made Star rank. I'm thrilled because the young man really seems to get it. I don't know if the same can be said about the other PLs, especially the two 6th graders who each have a couple of high school kids to lead (?).

 

Not quite the official BSA method, but closer than what was used last year. I'll report back with Part III after the first troop campout in May.

 

[KoreaScouter]

Why aren't the high schoolers in a Venture patrol?

 

KS

[acco40]

"The patrols seem balanced in age, rank and friendships, in that order."

 

That seems contrary to what is indicated in all of the BSA literature that I have. Partrols should be a group of peers and therefore NOT balanced by age and rank.

 

That is why there are new scout patrols, experienced patrols, etc. First, the boys should choose which patrols they would like to belong to, with no "pre-approved" PLs or PL candidates. Why should someone in the "rat" patrol have any say in the leadership of the "cat" patrol?

 

The goal of a troop is not to have evenly balanced (except for pure numbers) patrols. I remember when I was seventeen, my idea of a good time was not hanging around with 11 and 12 year old boys.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[scoutldr]

My understanding of the literature is "do what works best in your troop." Only about 50% of all troops use the "Venture" patrol method.

[Eagledad]

>>The goal of a troop is not to have evenly balanced (except for pure numbers) patrols. I remember when I was seventeen, my idea of a good time was not hanging around with 11 and 12 year old boys.

[Bob White]

Actually the BSA program uses an age/ability based patrol method.

 

New Scout Patrols- beginning skill and abilility level- under First Class- normally under 12 years old and under- under joint leadership of elected peer scout, experienced assigned scout, and single adult leader supervision.

 

Experienced Patrols- Moderate to experienced skills- 11 1/2 years to 13 years of age- Elected peer scout leadership-elected Senior Patrol Leader supervision,

 

Venture Scout Patrol- 13 to 18 years old- experienced scout-elected peer scout leadership, elected Senior Patrol Leader supervision,

Adult leader supervision.

 

These peer patrols are grouped by general age and ability level. Each patrol type has unique program features that take into consideration skill levels and learning goals.

 

Bob White

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

I agree it takes some extra work to have the appropriate levels of skill instruction, and in general, to "manage" the dynamics of a Venture patrol within a troop. However, I'm convinced there are a number of great reasons for doing it.

 

Here's just one: many other forum members have mentioned how awkward it can be to have a 12-year old First Class patrol leader, with a 15-year old Life Scout as a patrol member. You can tell them until you're blue in the face that the authority is derived from the green bars, not the rank on the pocket. However, you can't ignore the human factors. Having the Venture-age Scouts in their own patrol mitigates that.

 

From what I've seen, they're not going to withdraw from the troop. By definition, those Scouts are all older, higher in rank, and working toward Eagle. They will take on positions of responsibility within the Troop to meet advancement requirements.

 

KS

[matuawarrior]

I agree. Through experience my troop learned that older boys rarely listen to younger patrol leaders in the same patrol. They are better off in Venture Patrols with their peers.

 

It takes trial and error to find out what best fits for each patrol and troop. We too have gone through reorganization using the age/ability patrols. I like the plan that OGE's PLC used. We may use that in the future if we find a need to reorganize.

 

Matua

[Eagledad]

Hi All

I want to be careful and start out that I am not defending aged balanced patrols over aged based patrols. I'm speaking from our experiences. How ever you choose to run your troop, it should be based from what you want your sons get out of the program.

 

Every mature unit has frustrations of older scouts being led by 12-year-old Patrol Leaders because it requires patience and compassion when the thrill of adventure is just over the hill. But gaining happiness from thrills is usually short lived where self-fulfillment from service to other is long term. It would be rare that a 12 year old would be a Patrol leader in a mature age balanced patrol. In fact, it wasn't until our troop started Venture Patrols that our other patrols started electing 12 and 13-year-old patrol leaders. The older scouts were gone and the maturity of leadership fell, a lot. It is also true that in an mature age balance patrol type program your older or oldest scouts are typically the troop senior leaders and are use to younger patrol leaders because that is how leadership development works in the program. By the way, there were older scout patrols before Venture patrols were introduced, it's just they usually were the senior leadership scouts. Not high adventure.

 

There have been aged based patrols around since Scouting Started. They just were not the norm and not encouraged by the BSA until recently. So you have to ask, how did age balanced patrols make it up to this point? The answer is the adults. If you have a troop where in general the older scouts are having trouble with younger scouts, odds are it's because without knowing it, the adults are allowing that attitude, and may even be encouraging it. We've had a couple adults like that in our troop. One left to start a Venturing Crew and now admits he wanted to get away from the younger scouts so he could do more high adventure.

 

National encourages aged based patrols now, so there is nothing wrong with that type of Troop. But if you are doing it because the adults think older scouts can't or don't work well with younger scouts, then the adults are the problem. Don't underestimate or box in our young people. One reason I am so strong toward aged balanced patrols is because these young men can and do learn to enjoy working with each other. But that attitude does have to start with the adults. As I said earlier, we adults seem to have low expectations of older scouts anymore.

 

Have a great Scouting day.

 

Barry