Patrol Outings & Trip Permits

[Quixote]

Are patrols required to file Trip Permits with Council before a patrol outing?

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Any outing outside of your normal meeting location requires a Tour Permit

[Bob White]

While the use of tour permits as a planning tool is always a good idea there are times when it is not required to file one.

 

One example is Patrol outings. A local tour permit for a scout patrol that is biking to private property for an overnighter, is a good planning tool but it is not reqired that you file it with the Council office.

 

Keep in mind we are talking about a single patrol with no adults and no motorized vehicles or activities that require adult supervision such as aquatics.

 

Another example would be a den pizza party where every scout is being driven by their own parent or guardian.

 

A third example of not needing a tour permit is if you are going to a scout camp or activity being operated by your own council within your council boundaries.

 

Of course when in doubt call your Scout executive and ask.

 

Bob White

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Bob, I would think whether adult leaders were attending the outing or not that it would still require a tour permit with council....here's to learning something new every day

[Twocubdad]

That's interesting, Bob. Last summer when we went to a council-sponsored Webelos camp, we were required to produce a tour permit at check-in.

[Bob White]

All I can say twocubdad is that if you read the opening the opening paragraph of the local tour permit it specifically exempts locally owned counil camps.

 

BW

[ogghall]

Based on the variety of answers it is no wonder why our troop does not have clear diretion on local tour permits either. I do not understand why there is not a clear description given by BSA on when it has to be used. I go to our our district roundtables and if you ask the question in 3 different months you get three differnt answers. I guess the only reason from a liability standpoint I heard that it has to be filled out is that the troop liability insurance does not cover a troop claim if one is not filled out.

 

If you go to the BSA site this is what it says: Tour Permits

If a unit plans a trip within 500 miles of the home base, it is important that the unit obtain a local tour permit. A national tour permit is required for trips in excess of 500 miles from home or outside the continental United States. (See samples of both in the appendix.)

 

Tour permits have become recognized by national parks, military institutions, and other organizations as proof that a unit activity has been well planned and organized and is under capable and qualified leadership. These organizations may require the tour permit for entry.

 

Most short, in-town den trips of a few hours do not require a tour permit; however, it is recommended that dens obtain permission slips from parents.

 

No clear direction here either

[Bob White]

Ogghall,

Two things, you need to read the actual tour permits. The overviews are just that. Don't expect to get all the details from an overview.

 

Second, you never have to worry about losing the troop liability coverage, because there isn't any. There is accident coverage on the youth members, and liability coverage on the registered adults. There is also liability protection for the chartered organization. But there is no troop liability.

 

The BSA covers the youth regardless of any administrative or supervisor errors made by the unit leaders. The only thing that is ever at risk is your liability protection as a registered leader.

 

If a scout is injured and the family sues you the BSA will provide your legal defense and pay any fines determined by the court should you be found at fault. BUT ONLY...if you have followed the program, its rules and policies.

 

So for instance you are on a campout and you allow the scouts to perform an initiation stunt on some new scouts and one gets injured. Let's say the family sues you for allowing the act to take place. The BSA will not protect you. You have violated a policy of the Youth Protection program. You will have to pay for your own defense and you face severe personal financial loss when you pay the court ordered fines.

 

As an extra added attraction it is likely that for allowing the hazing to take place you and the other adults on the trip will have their BSA memberships permanently revoked.

 

I hope this helps clarify things,

BW

[Twocubdad]

Thanks for that info, Bob. It's good to know that the accident insurance is idiot proof. In training we're always told that you must follow all procedures to maintain coverage. The distinction between the two types of insurance isn't noted, however.

 

This may be a little off topic (so what else is new?) but one question I've never had adequately answered is what is BSA's attitude in deciding which leaders to defend and which they leave hanging? Do they look for reasons to defend you or do they look for reasons to stay out of court?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

To put more confusion into the pot ...

 

For us here in Michigan and I suspect most border states, we frequently camp in Canada and if the trip is under 500 miles we have been told repeatedly by our council that we only need a local tour permit.

[evmori]

acco,

I was always told if you are going out of the USA, a local tour permit is not good regardless of how far you are traveling.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

When in doubt read the BSA materials. The first paragraph of the National Tour Permit reads in part...."A National Tour Permit is required for all groups traveling 500 miles or more one way from home area (local council camp excepted), or crossing national boundaries into the territories of other nations."

 

BW