LauraT7 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 all our patrols are mixed age/rank/ grade / interest. 3 reg patrols and one "older scout" patrol. One of the regular patrols only has 3 members, because our current SPL and ASPL came from that patrol. We are looking at taking our "Viking" (older scout)patrol - (which consisits currently of two 16 almost 17 yr old scouts - both life and working on Eagle)and making it a real "venture" patrol. We have a number of boys who are 1st class & star rank, age 13 - barely 15, including a star who is 13, who are just chafing at the bit to do more high adventure things, and who are really at odds with the boys who are below them in interest and rank. We have made the announcement that if they are 13 and above first class, & wish to move up to Viking (venture patrol) to speak to the SM. One boy, (our 13 yr old Star - very determined to push his way through) asked about "positions of responsibility" - he wanted to know if he went into venture, could he still be patrol leader of the other patrol? I don't see how that can work. if enough boys want to move into Venture only 2 can be PL and APL. There are other positions in the troop - but right now we have a glut of older boys and apparently, not enough jobs to go around that really mean anything. Also - there is a line in the SM handbook - forgive me if I misquote, but something like "other POR's may be approved by the SM" And I remember some discussion about counting APL - IF they had specific responsibilities separate of just backing up the PL? how do we get boys to go into the Veture patrol, AND get them the positions they need - WITHOUT ending up with that patrol running the whole troop? We are a small troop of 18 - 20 boys, (which may get smaller soon - we have two families which may move soon) We want to give the boys who are ready for it a chance to do some real patrol work and the high adventure trips they crave - WITHOUT forcing the younger, less skilled scouts to go along and be pushed to do stuff they're not ready or interested in doing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9gold-scout Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Troop Guide - Instructor - Den Chief - Quartermaster - etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo2 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 In the Venture Patrol rollout that our Troop is attempting, we're viewing the Venture Patrol as being activity driven instead of an eternal institution. This Patrol would form from existing Patrols to work towards a goal ie Philmont trek, and elect a PL (Crew leader?) etc in the usual fashion. At the completion of the activity, the Patrol will disband and reform on the occasion of the next event. Given the nature of most High Adventure activities, I would think that this PL position should be acceptable for rank advancement. Great pains are being taken to use the Venture Patrol as a supplemental opportunity instead of competing with scheduled Troop activities. Patrol meetings will be separate from the Troop meeting and maintaining an active presence in the Troop is a requirement. Everything works on paper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denver4und@aol.com Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Hi. I've never seen the Venture Patrol as being treated any differently than any other patrol. A boy can't be in one patrol and be a PL in another patrol. By definition, if you're putting most of your older guys in one patrol, then that patrol is going to be "running the troop" because thats where the horse power is. We have about 51 registered boys. About half attend any given meeting and about 26-34 go on any given camping trip or outing. Also, all troops tend to "pyramid". You usually end up with one patrol of 16-17 year olds, but 3 patrols of 10 1/2 to 11 year olds. That's normal attrition. I've never liked the "all ages in one patrol" system because I find that what you report is common, the boys when they hit 13-15 want to be hangin with their peers, not with "the little guys", and if you force them to hang that way, then they tend to be overbearing, sarcastic, and the little guys often get bossed around. I've found that an older guy who is an instructor or troop guide is much better at defining his "teaching" "role model" role as opposed to his hanging with the guys role. Of course, on the flip side, if the older guys are mostly the SPL, ASPLs, QM, Scribe, Instructors, Troop Guides, then the younger guys have a much better chance of being PLs, APLs, Den Chiefs, etc. Our high adventure crews are just that, self organized groups from several patrols that work toward a single event like a Philmont trek or a Sea Base trip, but that organization has nothing to do with Troop organization (the crew leader is not automatically the SPL for instance). Good Luck, yis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoreaScouter Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I'm really getting into the new SPL and PL handbooks while putting together a Troop JLT presentation. There's a very good description in the SPL handbook on how to do the Venture Patrol. Laura, it's basically how you and Denver describe it. They're their own patrol, wear the Venture strip above their pocket, and elect their own PL/appoint their own APL. The concern that the Venture patrol will "run the troop" is only partially valid, as a concern, anyway. First, the troop as a whole elects the SPL. Odds are, he'll be from the Venture patrol based on demographics, but that's not a given. Second, if the oldest, most experienced Scouts are in the Venture patrol, why shouldn't they carry a disproportionate share of the responsibility for running the Troop? Finally, if any unwholesome trends began to develop as a result of Venture patrol "overrepresentation" among Troop leadership ranks, that's why BSA has us. I see the same issues others do with having a 12-year old First Class patrol leader and a 15-year old Life Scout in the same patrol. Theoretically, the green bar's the green bar. However, you can't ignore the fact that a 15-year old doesn't want a 12-yera old telling him what to do. We've been peeling our Venture-age Scouts off of skill instruction portions of our troop meetings for WJ and HA planning. But, we haven't taken the final step of actually putting them into a Venture Patrol. It's probably overdue... KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 The current structure recommended for a scout troop is for for three types of patrols. > New Scout Patrols, for scouts in there first year of scouting until they earn First Class > Regular Patrols for boys first class and over > Venture patrols for boys 14 years and up looking for high adventure activities Venture patrol is about having an advanced outdoor skill program for older scouts. All patrols have the same leadership opportunity except that New Scouts ahave a co leader in the office of Troop Guide and positions change monthly rather than on a recommended 6-9 month basis. The current program recommends that the SPL and ASPLs not be part of patrols. See the SM handbook, SPL handbook and SM Leader Specific training. Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagledad Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 leave the scouts in reguler patrols were the older scouts are role models. Encourage any scouts who wants to do a high adventure trek, what ever it is, to start a Venture patrol for that trek. Scouts interested in doing that trek become a member of that patrol until the trek is over. Then they go back to their other patrol. You will find a couple of scouts hopping from trek to trek, but most do not. You maintain the patrol structure and encourage a more adventurious program at the same time. And what I like about it is there dosn't have to be any age reqirements other than what the trek requires. You may have a Scout who wants to peddle across Oklahoma, why not, it's a fairly flat state. And you have a 12 year old bike racer who would love to go. Now he can. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purcelce Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 This might need to be in another thread but... Here's the situation with our troop. Two Lifes ages 17/15 One Star age 14 Two FC age 16/13 One SC age 12 One TF age 11 One Scout age 11 Eight New Scouts Crossing over in March. We've reorganized into two patrols with SC and below as PLs and APL Star is SPL, One FC ASPL. The Two Lifes and other FC are Troop guides and are our "Leadership Corp" Two patrols will follow First Year/First Class Program. Once the new boys show up, they'll be split into the patols. The boys are really having fun with patrol names and flags...Names of patrols are Thunderbolts, Flamming Toilet Paper, and Duct Tape (Leadership Corp). Since the kids were having so much fun, the adults have formed a "Geezer Patrol". Having a JLT and BSA 101 Campout in March. Who says you can't have fun, be boy lead, and follow the Patrol Method at the same time YIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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