New Scout Patrols

[CubsRgr8]

As indicated elsewhere, my son is doing well in a NSP in a troop that has a great FCFY program. He's already 2C, earned a merit badge, and I expect he'll make 1C by Christmas. However (you know this was coming), I've got some questions about NSP in general and how my son's troop is implementing it.

 

My son's troop has three NSPs with 7-9 scouts each. Scouts came from 5 or 6 different Packs and were randomly assigned to the patrols. At their first meeting, they were told to elect a PL to serve for 6 months, who then chose another scout to be the patrol QM. Each patrol was assigned 2 Troop Guides, who took turns working with the NSPs during troop meetings, campouts, and summer camp.

 

1) Is this the standard NSP implementation? I've read stuff on other threads that causes me to wonder.

2) None of the scouts has a clue what a PL is supposed to do and how they are to work with him. When are they supposed to learn this, by osmosis?

3) None of the patrols have gelled as a team. All too often I hear a scout dissing his own patrol and/or another patrol member. Isn't team building part of the NSP program?

 

My son and I like this troop, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to see it get even better.

 

[Bob White]

Sounds like they are off to a good start. Some suggestions I would make however....Have patrol leaders rotate every 30 days as the handbook recommends. The reason for this is to give each Pl a chance to attend a PLC and see how the troop decisions are made. It also gives the guide an opportunity to explain and guide each new scout through some basic leadership skills. Then after a year when the patrol has its first real election they have some expose to each scout as a PL and can make a better choice.

 

Next, the ASM for the New Scout Patrols needs to develop the annual agenda with the Guides so that they have an opportunity to prepare lessons and be more productive.

 

other than that it sounds like things are developing nicely.

 

Bob White

[sctmom]

"2) None of the scouts has a clue what a PL is supposed to do and how they are to work with him. When are they supposed to learn this, by osmosis? "

 

I see the same thing. The new scouts aren't told about the chain of command. They don't know who they should ask about what. They don't know they should ask SOMEONE to sign off on requirements. They don't know to go the PL first. They don't know they have to go say "I want to work on this Merit Badge".

 

Kids are so used to going to adults first when a problem arises. They are used to waiting to be told what to do and when to do it. Some teachers actually get on to kids who work ahead in the book. Then they are thrown into Scouting, whole new set of rules that no one tells them about!!!!

 

 

[Bob White]

That can be a problem, and that is why they need an active Troop guide. The TG leads them individually and in a few cases as a group through these points.

Bob

[SagerScout]

Interpatrol games that reward teamwork at every meeting foster patrol spirit. IT made a big difference both in patrol spirit and the overall perception of fun at the meetings.

 

I especially like the idea of awarding a feather or similar token to the winning patrol each week for them to put on their patrol flag. I saw that on a training video. We haven't implemented that in our troop but I can see some great looking flags shaping up over time.

[fotoscout]

If a Cub Scout Leader, who has been with boys since tiger scouts, moves into boy scouts with the same kids, is it a good idea to assign that person as the ASM for New Scout Patrol?

 

Personally, I think it's a great idea as long as he has a good Troop Guide to work with. What are your thoughts?

[mk9750]

The only other sugestion I can add to the other great ones above is to consider scrapping the idea of radomly ssigning new boys to the NSP, and trying to keep kids from the same pack, or at least from the same den, together. Once in a while you might get a parent who approaches you and says they think their son would do better if seperated from a group of boys he has been with for a few years, but in general, we see that kids from the same den like to be in the same patrol. We almost always try to keep guys together during the transistion to Boy Scouts. It just seems like one less concern they have. Not as much need to get to know and get comfortable with all new guys. And suprisingly, two dens from different packs coming together to form a patrol works well for us, too. I would have though that cliques would form, but it really doesn't happen.

 

Good luck!

 

Mark

[dan]

fotoscout

If a Cub Scout Leader, who has been with boys since tiger scouts, moves into boy scouts with the same kids, is it a good idea to assign that person as the ASM for New Scout Patrol?

 

I say no, this leader should go to training before he is assigned to a new scout patrol and learn what boy scouts is before working with new scouts, and the scouts need to start working with other adults.

[Bob White]

I absolutely agree with Dan that the ASM for the New Scout Patrol should be trained. So should all scout volunteers for that matter. But I see no harm in it being the former Webelos leader as long as he/she has the skills to do the job. How good a leader is has far less to do with how long they have been scouters and more to do with following the scouting program. I've seen new leaders take to scouting like a duck to water and long time scouters who take to the program like a fish to a bicycle.

 

Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[purcelce]

We have seven new scouts crossing over this weekend!

Only have 8 scouts now. The new scouts will nearly double our troop.

Here is our plan:

 

We have three Scouts that are 2C Tenderfoot and Scout.

 

Made 2C PL for one Patrol. Made TF PL and Scout APL for other patrol. New boys will be assigned to a patrol. Going to run both Patrols as New Scout Patrols, without the 30 day change over in PLs. Gives the "exprienced" scouts some leadership, and each patrol has a Scout that knows the program. We have three troops guides in addtion to our SPL and ASP. We have the best of both worlds.

 

[Bob White]

I hate to throw a wrench into a plan you are so happy with, but where are the BOY ELECTED leaders? The Scout Handbook along with every resource and scouting method says that boys ELECT their own leaders. We promise it to them in their handbook and you just took it away. This is what makes scouting unique from all other youth programs. How about following all of the New Scout Patrol program. You can't just pick pieces of the recipe to use and expect the dish to come out right. Boy Elected leadership is the basic element of junior leader training.

 

The point isn't to offer the best of two worlds it is to offer a genuine scouting experience. Please reconsider your decision.

 

Bob White

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[purcelce]

The PL's were selected by the PLC. Since our troop only had one patrol before the change, the boys though it was a good idea. We will be having new elections before summer camp. Don't worry, our troop is boy led.

[Bob White]

Don't get me wrong I'm not questioning boy lead but boy elected.

 

You are still assigning a leader to boys who have handbooks that say they will elect their own leader. I bet if you just put the 2nd class scout in with the new scouts odds are they would elect him. Even though the result is the same it is the process that makes it scouting. Scouting allows a patrol to select its own leader.

 

Remember that a Troop is not divided into Patrols. Patrols gather to form a troop. What you are doing is similar to congress telling a state who their Govenor will be. Even though the boys assigned the leaders, they are still assigned and not elected. I'm just suggesting that you will get more benifit from the program if you use it as it was designed.

 

Bob White

[purcelce]

Bob,

Love your imputs! I consider you the Sage of Scouting here on our wonderful forum.

 

Here's a little history on why the boys wanted to go this route.

 

Back at the beginning of the our troop only had 8 registered boys. We would have 3-5 boys show up at meetings due to school, sports, etc. So the troop was pretty much a one patrol troop.

Our feeder pack has 12 webelos crossing over, with three small troops for them to from on base.

The base sister troops camp together at camporees/summer camp and we've had the webelos along at two events.

 

Well we got the word back late last year that 8 were head to our troop and three were head our sister troop.

 

We we told our Scouts that the troop was doubling in numbers, someting magical happened. Our scouts were showing up for meetings! Instead of 3-5 at meetings we now have 6 to all of the scouts there now.

The PL at the time came up to the SM and asked "What are we going to do?" Not to mention the SPL was scratching his head. The boys came to the adults asking for help.

 

The adults sat the boys down at the PLC and gave them a few ideas on how the "new troop" would be organized.

 

Ideas were: 1. "Experience Patrol" and New Scout Patrol

2. Have two patrols with a mix of expericened and

new scouts.

3. Two patrols using "New Scout Patrol Method"

with our FC and above Scouts serving as troop

guides.

 

Well the boys did some discussing and felt number three was in the best intrest for the troop and new scouts. PLC desided to have our 2C and TF Scout to serve as Intrim PLs unitl May. SM then "challenged" our new PL to come up with Patrol names, flags, and call, and each PL was given a new PL handbook.

The next week our PLs and APL had come up with with their patrol names and even one PL had made is patrol flag. Our troop guides, SPL and ASP formed a "Leadership Corp" patrol and now have their own patrol name, flag, and are helping out our new PLs.

 

So we didn't go by the book word for word, but we have the makings of a great troop that is using the foundations of the patrol method.

We've even had one of the webelos "visting" the troop for the past four weeks. He's spread the word to his soon to be new troop mates about what to expect when they cross over. These kids are excited, new and expericeced scouts, about "their" program. I even had one of the new scouts that crosses over this weekend asking me which patrol he was going to be in. I told him he'll have to wait for troop meeting to find out (PLs are still working that out).

 

The word is even spreading to other packs about what our boys are doing. The SM had an Webelos den leader asking about her 5 webelos joining our troop.

 

I'm so proud of our scouts! They took a spark, and we now have a huge campfire. Anybody is more than welcome to stop by and warm themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

[dan]

purcelce

Could you not have used the older scouts as troop guides for the new patrols instead of making them the Patrol Leaders? A troop guide IMHO would allow more leader ship for the older scouts and give the new scouts experience in leading and being lead.

One of the reasons that it is suggested that Patrol Leaders rotate every 30 days is so that the new scouts can see and participate in the leadership of the troop at the PLC meeting as a active participant. You may be small enough to have all scouts at the PLC but remember who has a vote or say at the PLC.

 

I really do not like that the Patrol Leader come up with the patrol names and flag, this should be the whole patrol deciding this not just the patrol leader.

 

I am finding that trying to make changes after these types of things happen are harder than fumbling through the first 6 months as the scouts learn how to do all of this. The troop my son is in has setup some things that is not really the correct way to do it, and almost all of my ticket items are addressing these.

Just some food for thought!