2 deep leadership for larger groups

[qwazse]

This sometimes works backwards for venturing.

 

Backpacking in wilderness recreation areas has a federally imposed limit of 10 per group. If your hike plan takes you to the interior of the area (which, with trained venturers, it probably will) you need to be prepared to split up in an emergency. So you need 4 adults. That leaves space for six youth. Boils down to a ratio of 2:3.

 

Our Seabase contingent got two small boats instead of one large. That meant we split 10 youth and needed two adults on each boat. The captain is also there. That was a 3:5 ratio.

 

Not sure what the effective ratio is for Philmont or Northern tier.

 

On the other hand, older youth are more comfortable working with adults (rather than having adults do everything for them), and patrol method is not part of venturing, so it all evens out.

 

Certainly, if you have a routine outing with four patrols of disciplined boys, two adults could easily manage the weekend's activities.

 

Keep in mind that if a patrol has made a solid plan for a day hike, a 0:8 ratio is reasonable! Your boys might just be there in a couple of years.

[NealOnWheels]

"Backpacking in wilderness recreation areas has a federally imposed limit of 10 per group. If your hike plan takes you to the interior of the area (which, with trained venturers, it probably will) you need to be prepared to split up in an emergency. So you need 4 adults. That leaves space for six youth. Boils down to a ratio of 2:3."

 

Really?

 

Where in the Guide to Safe Scouting does it say 4 adults are needed?

 

I have filed tour plans several times for backcountry trips with only two adults and was never denied.

[Oak Tree]

you need to be prepared to split up in an emergency. So you need 4 adults.

 

This does not follow. In fact, one of the reasons to have two adults on all trips is so that you can split up in case of emergency. Philmont only requires two adults per crew.

[Beavah]

Yah, it's usually a function of how many drivers yeh need.

 

For Boy Scouting, only 1:10 for aquatics and climbing I think. No other ratios.

 

Practically speakin', this gets subject to some judgment. If you've got three rappels running, yeh likely have a much higher adult:youth ratio for each rappel, because of da nature of the activity. At the same time, yeh might have 50 kids waitin' in line, so overall yeh might have less than 1:10 of adults to all kids present.

 

Yeh certainly don't need 4 adults for a backcountry trip. That's overkill, especially in areas where there are group size limits.

 

Beavah

 

[qwazse]

It's a rare co-Ed crew that would insert into backcountry with less than four ... especially if rescue may take overnight. It would have to be mostly 18-20 year olds, but then it's rare when a group that age would bother with any adults. They would not call it a crew activity. They'd leave a note on the counter, and be gone.

 

You can tell how the evolution of my crew has gone, eh?

 

If you've done differently with your crews, that's awesome, and I hope to see it with mine one day. It would be great to have a half-dozen kids excluding so much confidence that you and one other adult just wind up tagging along!