Blindsided

[Deaf Scouter]

The other topic had me putting that word 'blindsided' on exactly how I felt at our last Troop meeting. The topic was medical forms. The new leadership is looking for them thinking I have their originals. Knowing from experience and new policy changes that medical forms are now supposed to be kept for places like summer camp, I made copies of originals. I gave the originals BACK to the parents. Lo and behold they now can't find them. It was a little rough when out of 4 parents when three (two who are the current leadership) say the same thing, can't find them.

 

I even designed a notebook for organizational purposes to help parents and scouts. There is a plastic sleeve for the original medical form that states in its notes that 'you keep the original and send a copy'. Unfortunately, none of these adults utilized this. I found my own original and second copy upon home arrival after the Troop meeting ( In case I've confused you....As a precaution, I made two copies of my original, in case I was ever in a hurry and 'grabbed' my original/copy with making a copy because I was preoccupied on other matters. A common trait of a newbie Scoutmaster I've found last year. Whew in that someone else is doing it this year... *grins while laughing) I really wasn't upset because I knew the truth in spite of their words. Later I was able to verify with another Scouter who wasn't at the Troop meeting yet was present at the copying session that YES I returned the originals to them in spite of what these adults say. I was at loss as to how to help them since I went through MUCH trouble to prevent this from happening in the first place. (Guess precaution still doesn't guarantee that problems won't arise even if we try hard against it... *laughing) It was also tough in how my words kept getting twisted around until I simply stopped talking on the issue, shrugged my shoulders and refuse to get upset.

 

So have you ever been blindsided? How and on what?... *smiles

 

[SeattlePioneer]

In my opinion, we usually ignore the fact the Scouting is in part Adult Leadership Training and Experience. Learning the methods of small group leadership is something adults learn in Scouting, not just youth.

 

Monday I was involved in the first Tiger Cub Den meeting led by a new parent. The parent is an attorney but he still has some things to learn about managing a Tiger Cub Den meeting!

 

Expecting people to lose things like medical forms is a no brainer. A smart precaution to avoid the difficulties that might cause might be to make a copy before handing the original back to parents, or perhaps keeping the original and giving parents back a copy.

 

Part of being an experienced leader is understanding the weaknesses youth and parents are likely to experience and taking precautions to avoid the consequences.

 

Of course youth and adults need to experience the consequences of poor personal management as well, so as to manage their own affairs better. When both leaders and followers are taking steps to manage such issues effectively, you are likely to have a minimum of problems.

[Twocubdad]

Apparently I'm missing the point here.

 

You returned their original in a plastic sleeve with a nice little note of instructions? Sounds to like you're creating overly high expectations. 'Round here, if you want a copy, make one youself before you turn the dang thing in. What does this look like, Kinkos?

 

 

I've yet to encounter anyone -- doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief -- who gives a rip about original vs. copy. Summer camp doesn't care. Never seen an ER care. I certainly don't care. So give them a copy of your copy and tell them to go pound sand.

 

 

[Deaf Scouter]

Actually the point, TwoCubDad, was...

Have you ever been blindsided?

 

Seems I am getting it right on the forums here... *laughing

 

Everyone seems to be reading my tale but not the last line asking for theirs... *grins

 

As for my tale.. the new leadership will have to chalk it up as lesson learnt as its their problem since they need it and I don't. Been there, done that. I TRIED to save the a headache but seems the deafness in on them and not me...*innocent impish smile

[CA_Scouter]

I think you are trying to be too helpful. Its not your responsibility to keep track of other peoples forms, nor to copy them, nor to put them in plastic sleeve, nor to design a notebook, etc. By doing that you are taking the responsibility away from them and putting it upon you, so they are not vested in the process.

 

If you lay down the law and state that people are responsible for providing you with the medical forms (or copies) and that failure to comply will result in non-participation, then you put the responsibility back on them. Our summer camp coordinator does just that, and everyone still gets to summer camp, though some forms are turned in at the parking lot that morning... ;-)

 

If you want to set a standard that people are responsible for themselves, then that's a good start. This should trickle down to your Scouts and they will eventually be responsible for themselves also...

 

(don't mean to preach, just advisin'....)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Papadaddy]

Put the responsibility where it belongs...on the SCout. "If you don't have a valid medical form one week before we leave for camp, you're not going. You figure out how to make that happen." Quit coddling them and their parents. What do we look like...the Government?

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

Too severe a consequence for a common human failing, in my opinion.

 

Unfortunately, one of the facts of life for leaders is that it can be necessary to nag and remind people of things that need to be done.

 

If you aren't willing to do that, expect to lose a significant part of your membership from your program.

 

Deaf Scouter attempted to do that by designing and supplying a notebook as an aid to people maintaining their own records. That attempt largely failed when people didn't utilize this aid.

 

He made another effort in that direction by making duplicate copies of the form so he wouldn't be reliant on Scouts and parents.

 

He took the additional step of finding another leader to take charge of this responsibility this year.

 

Those all sound like worthy leadership efforts, although ones that perhaps really belonged to the Senior Patrol Leader or Committee Chair to sort out.

[Twocubdad]

Too severe a consequence? Absolutely not. It's what's going to happen. Show up Sunday afternoon at summer camp without a health form and AT BEST you sit in the health lodge until your parents come take you to a local doc-in-a-box. Likely, you sad butt goes back home. This is national camp standards, not troop or council policy.

 

Is a big part of the whole citizenship thing not responsibility and consequences? Or did I miss a memo?

[sbemis1]

My sympathy to anyone charged with collecting/verify health forms. Twice was enough for me, though I still get to cart them around.

Our troop is a bit more lenient, but if you haven't turned in the form you don't get on bus for summer camp. We do always have a few come in that morning. . .

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Two Cub,

 

 

Refuse a boy summer camp because he doesn't have the health form A WEEK IN ADVANCE? That's unreasonably severe, in my opinion.

 

 

Refuse a Scout a ride to camp without his health form in hand? That's a lot more reasonable, as described by sbemis1.

 

 

One is an arbitrary deadline --- the other is dealing with reality.

 

I would have no objection to setting the arbitrary deadline to get people going and getting the form in hand. But if a Scout had the form in hand when it came time to leave for camp, would you really refuse him?

 

[GKlose]

Hey, I was blindsided this summer...

 

I'm the troop adult that takes care of administrative things, like collecting medical forms, for summer camp. I don't mind this task, other than it irritates me when I get half-complete (give or take) information or late forms, etc, after I've given plenty of instruction, warnings, reminders and "last call" notes. Maybe I'm too communicative? I don't know...

 

So, standard procedure for almost every youth camp everywhere, right? All medications must be in their original containers. But that didn't stop two mothers from pre-packaging their sons meds into weekly pill boxes. One of the moms is an RN. So I'm left wondering...did I forget to remind them? Was I not clear enough? Have they not been through this before? I could only smack my forehead and wonder how this was going to go.

 

The camp nurse was great about it. Really. She took the ziplock and handed it directly to me and said, "I can't accept this, so please take this and lock it up somewhere" (it went in my car). She called both moms, didn't get hold of them, and then said she'd follow up. Said that maybe the meds could be overnighted or driven up to the camp. Great.

 

Then comes what I don't like to hear. I saw the camp nurse a few hours later, and I apologized again and asked if things went well. Then she drops the bomb. One mom will take care of it. The other one -- well, she thinks that maybe her son will be fine without it for the week.

 

That's just like another mom, who just decided not to send a medication that was listed on the med form. She decided that he probably wouldn't need it for the week, so she didn't send it.

 

How am I, an untrained person, to know how to deal with the consequences of that decision?

 

That is what I considered to be blindsided. Just dump the consequences on me.

 

Guy

[Papadaddy]

I assume you are talking about ADHD meds, GKlose. I would have told the mom, fine, that's your decision. But bad behavior will not be tolerated, medicated or not. And if he comes home with a bunch of partials because he "can't focus", it's not your problem. I am amazed at the RN who repackaged the meds. If she has to deal with a school nurse, she should know what the rules are...

[Twocubdad]

I'm guessing you've not been responsible for collecting 60 or 75 forms, huh, SP?

 

If you take the job responsibly, there's more to it than shoving them in a folder. We have an RN who collects the forms and review them for completeness. Many miss the requirement for including a copy of the insurance form. And you'd be surprised at the number who don't understand they had to have a doctor's physical. Neither is a problem which can be easily solved the hour before we leave for camp.

 

Our nurse also reviews the forms and compiles a "hot list" is medications, allergies, conditions, ect., the troop leaders need to be aware of. I can look at the forms and have no clue a prescription for falophuxiphene mean you have a hang nail or your head is ready to fall off. She does. And yes, you would be surprised at the number of parents who don't think they need to share medical information with the leaders. (Of course they are far out numbered by the parents who want to talk about it incessantly. )

 

We also have an interest in not permitting families to abuse this lady. If forms aren't turned in at the troop meeting the week before camp (actually 5 days), she spends the next several days chasing people down, meeting them to get the form -- she even had folks try to get her to do the physical for their son.

 

Of course there are acceptable reasons for not meeting the deadline. Not getting around to it ain't one of them! Setting reasonable deadlines and expecting folks to adhere to them isn't a bad thing.

[Jay K]

See my Wood Badge horror story. That was a blind-siding.

As far as the Health forms, our Troop Committee Chair asks for them in the spring. He keeps them as PDF's and prints them out upon request for High Adventure trips, summer camp, and Conclave. We often spend a lot of time and anguish bullyragging people to get the bleeping exam done and get the blankety form to the CC. But, it usually gets done.