So... son was confronted while selling popcorn this weekend over BSA membership policy...

[ScoutWolf]

Well, my idea is that I wouldnt let a scout go around by himself selling popcorn without an adult nearby. Our cubs go with an adult. If someone had said that to my cub, I would politely leave, but without mentioning the fact that you dont need to attack a child for an adult issue. I would then use that moment to teach that cub that if you are nice to everyone, 9/10 you will have someone whose lot in life is to make others feel like garbage. Say "thanks" and walk away. You cant say that you werent nice to them. Scouts are Friendly.

 

anyone noticing how the media is just slamming BSA lately? media conspiracy?

[howarthe]

I'm so sorry that happened to your son. If the individual made the comment as they continued to walk away, then I think the only response is: "thank you, have a nice day." It they stood still, then you might be able to have a thoughtful conversation.

[frankpalazzi]

"Might" is the operative word there. The "adult"'s rant would quickly include the words "bigot," "prejudice," "homophobe," etc. I've known these types for too long. That's where "thoughtful" conversation ends with me, I'll not lower myself to responding to ad hominem attacks.

[qwazse]

I'd like to interject two things about 11 year old boys ...

 

They are at the right age to start selling popcorn with a buddy. No adult required. They should give folks a specific plan of where they are going, when they'll be home, and so on. But they should be able to tackle this on their own if they try.

 

They are at the right age to learn that some people have philosophical differences with the movement they represent. After all, they are about to invest seven years with it. They'd might as well get some understanding of the statement they are making.

 

So, as much as I hate sales etc ..., this kind of intersection with the public tends be more character building than demoralizing. Don't be mad at folks who somehow have forgotten that a pre-teen doesn't deserve snarkiness. Be glad your boy has a chance to really work that courteous muscle!

[OldGreyEagle]

So, I have watched this thread for awhile now and have a question and an Observation.

 

First, and somehow I know this will get missed, but I will put it here first: what happended was wrong, the youth is not responsible for the membership policy of the BSA and there was no call for the adult to do what he did

 

Now, that was the Observation, now the question

 

How is what happended any different that a Snipe hunt, a hunt for a left handed smoke shifter and the like? The scout was out doing what he was told to do and was met with ill mannered opposition. In the past when Snipe Hunts are discussed and I oppose them, I get met with the argument the youth just have to toughen up and not take things so seriously. WHy is thay not an option here? That some people don't like the BSA is a life lesson that unfortunately needs to be learned. If 11 is an age when Popcorn may be sold door to door without an adult, then 11 is when the youth can face the possibility that everyone they meet is not their friend, or nice or civil.

 

Abusing the trust and innocence of a child, for any reason, is just flat wrong, in any situation

[OldGreyEagle]

So, I have watched this thread for awhile now and have a question and an Observation.

 

First, and somehow I know this will get missed, but I will put it here first: what happended was wrong, the youth is not responsible for the membership policy of the BSA and there was no call for the adult to do what he did

 

Now, that was the Observation, now the question

 

How is what happended any different that a Snipe hunt, a hunt for a left handed smoke shifter and the like? The scout was out doing what he was told to do and was met with ill mannered opposition. In the past when Snipe Hunts are discussed and I oppose them, I get met with the argument the youth just have to toughen up and not take things so seriously. WHy is thay not an option here? That some people don't like the BSA is a life lesson that unfortunately needs to be learned. If 11 is an age when Popcorn may be sold door to door without an adult, then 11 is when the youth can face the possibility that everyone they meet is not their friend, or nice or civil.

 

Abusing the trust and innocence of a child, for any reason, is just flat wrong, in any situation

[qwazse]

OGE, I don't see it as an abuse of trust. But from what I see middle-school kids dealing with, this is small potatoes.

 

Some people have always had issues with scouts. When I was a kid, it was the whole anti-military sentiment. Other folks simply saw us as pretentious.

 

Unlike a snipe hunt, which is a contrived situation, this is real life. If you put on the uniform, it will likely offend someone for reasons no fault of your own. We might think that an adult present would solve the problem, but that's not entirely true. Sometimes adults make things worse, using the power they have (e.g. my snarky response, Federal's taking notes for authorities) to push the boy aside and fan a few flames.

 

Although he might not feel that way now, Dean is in the best possible situation. His boy met some opposition and later talked to him about it. That brought up two opportunities. The first was to discuss real issues about real people. (Middle school is when many boys begin to dealing with this stuff in more than fits and giggles.) The second, was to teach the boy a little courtesy in the face of discouraging remarks.

 

It wouldn't be the first time a youth just being a youth changed someone's opinion of the program.

 

Now, obviously, if DeanRx jr. doesn't ever want to knock on a door again because the neighborhood is full of meanies, we've gone too far.

[DeanRx]

Just to clarify...

 

He was doing store-front sales, not going door to door. I was within 5 feet of him, sitting in my camp chair, reading a book when both passer-byes happened to drop their comments.

 

They were both snarky, but didn't stop walking, so I figure they just wanted to get their dig in, feel good about their opinion, and move on with life. That's fine.

 

Son just kind of stammered, "Ok, thanks anyways..." to both of them.

 

I chalk it up to a life lesson and a door openned for a good conversation with my kid.

 

My larger concern is for scouts who may or may not be selling with an adult in close proximity who get a verbal barrage and don't understand the context or HOW to appropriately respond to such an encounter.

 

Seems to me, we almost need to add this to the YPG training we do with the boys, so they are not blindsided if and when it happens to them. Its a sad fact of the society we live in today when adults with adult points of view see the need to verbally lash out at a youth to get their point across. Just think it might be a good idea to arm your scouts with some knowledge, so they can understand the other person's perspective (you can debate the merit all you want), and have a canned response at the ready. Said response should be freindly and courteous... like, "Ok, thanks anyways..."

 

Funniest part of it the whole encounter... lady walking up behind the 2nd person to snark at my kid bought EXTRA popcorn because she overheard the conversation and commented to me how well the lad handled himself... I thought that was pretty great.

[Twocubdad]

They were both snarky, but didn't stop walking, so I figure they just wanted to get their dig in, feel good about their opinion, and move on with life.

 

In other words, both cowards. As I said before, this doesn't have anything to do with philosophy, politics or orientation. Making a comment like that to an 11y.o. and walking away is just being an ass, an a coward.

 

Frankly, I would prefer someone who would engage the scout in a thoughtful conversation on the topic, if they could do it appropriately. Not that I would necessarily welcome or encourage it, but a real conversation would be better that a cheap shot.

[frankpalazzi]

You'll never get "real conversation" from those types of people. Ever try it?

[Twocubdad]

Yes, actually. I had a really nice conversation with an acquaintance who has a son in kindergarten. She is very liberal, an atheist and is in strong disagreement with BSA's membership policies. We chatted for about an hour and both really enjoyed having a rational conversation with someone from the other side of the aisle.

 

Of course she may not fit your description of "those types of people."

[frankpalazzi]

RATIONAL conversation for an HOUR? Really? You never got called "bigot," "racist," or "homophobe?"

 

Ah dew declare...there may just be some civility left.

[qwazse]

Dean, I think your boy gave the best possible answer given the situation. As he gets older, he'll get better with the delivery.

 

Frank and 2c, I've had both results. Some people make a comment hoping their 5 second protest will shake you to the core and they'll never want to talk to you again. Others are actually reaching out in a bizarre sort of way and will buy your coffee trying to figure out how to see things your way.

[AZMike]

It's interesting that us adult scouters are talking about using an experience with an obnoxious adult as a teachable moment, and that scouts should learn to deal with unpleasant individuals as they will have to deal with them in sales environments later, and that they should learn ways to deflect angry answers and find common areas of agreement.

 

I asked one of the scouts in our troop last night what HE would do if an adult acted in a snarky manner when he was doing door-to-door popcorn sales.

 

His immediate response was, "Toilet paper. Lots of it. After he goes to sleep."

 

I'm pretty sure he was joking, but maybe there's something to be said for the idea of a boy-led troop. Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best.

 

"Oderint, dum metuant."(This message has been edited by AZMike)

[Trevorum]

A similar thing happened to my son some years ago while volunteering at a Venturing Crew car wash fund raiser at a WalMart parking lot. His response was along the lines of, "Yeah, I know. That whole thing really blows. But otherwise it's really awesome. So, want your car washed?"