Cabins, is that camping?

[perdidochas]

Sleeping in cabins isn't camping, but it's still a good way to get into and use the Outdoors.

[NJCubScouter]

We are all in different parts of the country, so this question may be viewed differently by different people. Personally, if its zero degrees (F, not C), and it is a rustic cabin with one little fireplace, I do consider that camping. I have been on a couple of those.

[frankpalazzi]

I agree with NJ Cub Scouter. Up here in New England, it can get dangerously cold, especially at our council camp, where -10F is common during December and January. Of course, the boys must keep that cabin warm, which means gathering and cutting wood! Yes, in the snow! These days, when we announce a camping trip (ANY time of year), the parents ALWAYS ask, "Are they gonna be in teeennnnts?" Twenty-plus years ago, they'd say, "Polar Bear camping, huh? It'll be good for 'em!" The problem is, with this generation of parents, we wouldn't have any participation if we plan to pitch tents if there's snow on the ground! So, yes, we consider our cabin trips "camping"--The boys are outdoors for the most part unless it's mealtime or bedtime. And we won't allow them out if it's "dangerously cold" (below 0 with wind). Sometimes, a boy and/or adult will want to brave the elements and pitch a tent outside the cabin! Our SM is FINE with that! We haven't lost one yet---or even come close!

 

The council camp just built a new cabin last year for use in summer by staff, but available to troops in the off-season. (Please be sitting down if you're reading this) It has ELECTRIC heat, RUNNING WATER, and OUTLETS at every bunk for charging the toys. I looked a member of the camping committee square in the eye and said "Are you s*****g me??"(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

[qwazse]

Frank, No offence, but being stuck in that cabin with y'all is a bit more than this scouter can handle most weekends.

 

Slightly more than twenty years ago, my mom put two and two together one snowy night as I was packing for camp and said, "You're not going to sleep in that snow are you?"

I replied, "Well, yeah. Just like I did last year and the year before."

 

The freak factor hasn't changed.

[packsaddle]

I know teens (boys and girls both) who spend weeks in the middle of winter in the high desert out west, packing up and moving at least 5 miles each day no matter how deep the snow is, to a new camp, with nothing more than a good sleeping bag, a blue plastic tarp, a pack frame made of dead tree branches strapped together with leather straps, and whose group had to make fire by friction - no matches. No toilet paper. Moreover they cooked directly on the fire because they had no cooking utensils other than the occasional discarded can they could find. Now THAT's camping.

[Peregrinator]

Who needs toilet paper when you have snow? ;-)

[packsaddle]

Exactly!

[Second Class]

>>>>>The council camp just built a new cabin last year for use in summer by staff, but available to troops in the off-season. (Please be sitting down if you're reading this) It has ELECTRIC heat, RUNNING WATER, and OUTLETS at every bunk for charging the toys. I looked a member of the camping committee square in the eye and said "Are you s*****g me??"

[sbemis1]

Some years back my just-crossed-over son went on his first trip with the troop. Survivor weekend, bring-no-tent-build-your-patrol-shelter. They cooked their dinner in heavy blowing snow over open fires. 20in by morning (quite unusual for this area). 1 adult only bailed to the cabin when his tent collapsed on him. They still talk about that one....

[Jeffrey H]

Cabins? Yea, it's camping...just ask my wife

 

 

[Stosh]

There are those that say that campers and RV are camping, too.

 

Holiday Inn in the woods is not camping for me.

 

I spent last weekend in a pup tent with no ends or floors. I ate jerky and trail mix because I couldn't keep a fire going in the rain. That's camping in my book.

 

Stosh

[CalicoPenn]

I know folks that would call a Holiday Inn "roughing it".

 

After reading all the responses, I'm not sure that we can come up with a universal defininition of camping. Even the dictionary definition of camping wouldn't pass muster with a lot of folks here since it includes things that many here would exclude.

 

I think the difficulty is in trying to define the line one crosses to get from camping to not camping. Pack suggests a fabric covering at best - which I presume, by the use of "at best" would include sleeping out in the open under the stars/clouds, as well as quinzhees (snow shelters) and brush lean-tos and brush shelters (unless you think they're better than fabric covered lodging) as well as tents, teepees, tarps and hammocks. Pack also specifically excludes Adirondacks (a common wooden roofed shelter with one to three sides partially to fully open to the elements). Setting aside various other man made shelters we commonly "camp" in like submarines, that narrow definition would seem to leave out natural shelters like caves, caverns and overhanging ledges since there is a covering that is not made of fabric and it's not technically under the skies and in a lot of ways, camping under the shelter of a cave is superior to camping in a tent.

 

I'm sympathetic to the argument but, as someone has already inferred, a soft-covered pop-up trailer would qualify under this definition and I'm not convinced that an Adirondack is a better shelter than a pop-up trailer.

 

I've stayed overnights in a few Adirondack trail type shelters - I have no doubt in my mind that I was camping. I've spent some nights on top of picnic tables under open sided picnic shelters - I think I was camping then too. I've sometimes slept overnight in my car - I've got mixed feelings on whether thats better or worse than sleeping in a tent - it's certainly better in a raging thunderstorm, but far less desirable on a hot night. I've also spent quite a few nights sleeping out on the deck of various homes I lived in or was visiting - but even though I was sleeping under the stars, I wasn't camping - at least I don't think so.

 

That brings Engineer's half-joking post in to play - no running water, no cable, no AC. Yeah, I would call that camping (unless it was at my house after a power failure, then it's not camping, it's just an incovenience). So I've been thinking about that - Do all three things need to be there for it to apply or is it a strict rule and if even one of those items are there, it does not count as camping. As one who camps at a lot of state parks, it's fairly common that the state park will have modern toilet facilities with running water - would that mean I'm not camping even if I'm in a tent?

 

Lets say if all three are present, it's not camping. Of course, that gives folks in tents the opening (not that they need it) to haul out a television and extension cord to watch the Packer's game while sitting in front of their tents. It excludes things like Class A Motorhomes (which have running water, satellite television, and air conditioning) but allows for things like cabins if they don't have all three of these items.

 

One of the dictionary definitions of camping involves "temporary" living quarters - based on the examples, I don't believe they mean the definition to be restricted to shelters one brings with them all the time. There seems to be wriggle room to allowing for shelters that are permanent but not used everyday. For instance, summer camp cabins which are used just a few weeks in the summer but aren't permanent shelters for someone. The question is where does one draw the line - does staying at a weekend cabin retreat count as camping? I think I'd call it "Cabining".

 

So where does that get us? I think it gets us to here - and it will be a familiar paraphrase to many:

 

"I don't know what camping is, exactly, but I know it when I see it".

 

I think we need to deepen that thought, though: "If there is no argument that something is camping, then it's camping. If there is no argument that something is not camping, then it is not camping. If there is genuine differences of opinion on whether something is camping or not, call it camping until it's proven its not." (Note the word genuine - that's to weed out those playing "Devil's Advocate" claiming that staying in a condo timeshare over the weekend is "camping").

 

So that makes it pretty clear, right? Clear as mud, I'm sure.

 

One last thing:

 

"The council camp just built a new cabin last year for use in summer by staff, but available to troops in the off-season. (Please be sitting down if you're reading this) It has ELECTRIC heat, RUNNING WATER, and OUTLETS at every bunk for charging the toys. I looked a member of the camping committee square in the eye and said "Are you s*****g me??""

 

If the primary purpose is for the summer camp staff, then I have no problem with this kind of cabin being built at all - the summer camp staff works hard and deserves the little luxuries they get. I may have stayed in a wall tent like everyone else did when I worked on staff, but we also had our own bath house with flushable toilets and electricity run to our tents in our encampment. If you were invited as a guest to the staff tenting area (a rare invitation but it sometimes happened), you would see tents with televisions and stereos. Nowadays, we would probably have a few more outlets for things like cell phones, I-pods and I-pads. One of our neighboring councils had a cabin like this - in the fall, they shut down the power to the outlets, winterized (ie shut down) the water to the shower/toilet rooms, disconnected the appliances (stove/refrigerator) and locked out the base heaters to 55 degrees, just enough to keep the pipes from freezing. Troops could use the cabins but they only had electric lights and running water with minimal heat.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)