Packs need volunteers with Troop dedication.

[tgrimstead]

 

Just My Opinion:

 

It seems that the Leaders in Packs are mainly parents who follow their child through the ranks in to Boy Scouting where the continue to volunteer and sometimes remain as a leader well after their child has left the Troop.

Why does it seem that rarely volunteers return to the Pack level to help the young leaders. In my experience Packs are always struggling to fill positions and have constant turn around of leaders. I would think the Troops would have a vested interest in the Pack programs as that is were they are receiving new scouts from. Wouldn't it be advantageous to have some Elder Statesman from the Troop help with the Pack as CM or ACM or CC or Tiger Leader and secure some cohesiveness in the Pack? I've heard several times Troop level adults speak about Pack leaders lack of experience, or the way they run their program and they are losing Web's. How about a helping hand. Share your experience and knowledge.

 

Yours in Cheerful service,

Tim

[howarthe]

I read somewhere (probably this forum) that assistant scout masters make excellent webelos leaders. I also read somewhere that tiger cub den leaders should be recruited to serve for three years. That might work if a parent has two boys in the pack. I don't know anyone in our troop, so I don't know what its like, but I suspect they have as few volunteer leaders as we do. If that is true then I am not surprised that they don't send leaders our way, but we did get a committee chairman from them, and for that I am very grateful. She's wonderful. Lots of experience. Eager to lend a had hauling stuff all over for us and connected with the school leaders, too.

[5yearscouter]

The problem is after 5 years of running cub scout events, which take a lot more planning and hands on,

most parents are really looking forward to the hands-off-ed-ness of Boy Scouting.

 

They are burnt out on that cub scout level of putting in 1 hour a week

(which is really 1 hour a week times however many boys are in your unit).

Besides, it is totally different to go back and try to ramp up the fun for cubs when you've already gone to the fire station many times with your scout and really don't want to do it again,

you've btdt on the crafts and games and activities,

you just don't have the high level of enthusiasm to pull it off as a cubmaster or den leader.

 

Sure you could help with the boring stuff--paperwork, applications, YPT, tour plans, and such, but who really wants to do that?

[perdidochas]

The problem is time. It's hard to be involved in a Pack and a Troop at the same time. I did it for almost a year as WDL and Troop Advancement chair. I thought it stretched me too thin.

[Austinole]

Troops getting involved more with the Packs would be a win win. I'd want to be careful not to crowd out any cub scout volunteer from participating. I'd rather them be in more of a supportive roll. Take positions like Camp outs coordinator or Pack Trainer.

[Eagledad]

>>The problem is time. It's hard to be involved in a Pack and a Troop at the same time. I did it for almost a year as WDL and Troop Advancement chair. I thought it stretched me to thin.

[CCbytrickery]

Our ACM is also our Webelos 2 den leader this year (moved up in ranks with his son) and he is also the troop CC. He is a total scouter, having stayed involved his whole life--even the time between his Eagle and his own son joining a pack.

 

He is planning on staying as our ACM, but not as a DL after his son transitions. If it's not him, they will give us someone else--it helps us out as well as them.

 

 

[Eagle92]

As others have mentioned, burn out is a big deal, especially now that Cubs is a 5 year program. I know a few who did it well after their sons got out of Scouting, and in all honesty I don't now how they do it. Cub Scouts is 100 times harder than Boy Scouts.

 

As why folks remain in troops after their sons leave, it's because Scouting is addictive, esp. if you have a 'Hiking and Camping Troop."

 

As to being involved in both, in about 16 months I'll be in that situation, and again I don't know how I'm going to manage, esp. since the troop meets on the nights my wife takes care of her mom. I have a feeling I'll be an MC and just do the camping.

 

Best bet IMHO is not to have adult troop leaders workign with the pack, but get some Den Chiefs going. And IMHO not only do the den chiefs need training, BUT THE DEN LEADERS NEED TO BE TRAINED IN HOW TO USE THEM (emphasis, ok maybe a little shouting )

 

When I was a DC, the first den I worked with didn't really use me and I was fruistrated. I switched dens and that made a BIG difference.

 

Also I had a DC and used him extensively. When the WDL quit, and that den needed someone with camping experience, I asked him if he would mind working with them, and he said no problem. But once he go there, the new WDL didn't really utilize him and he too got frustrated.

[drmbear]

I'm on my 3rd year as Cubmaster, and I've loved it. Essentially I have had a chance to do what I did back when I was a Senior Patrol Leader as a youth, planning, engaging, performing, leading. Just as I was kinda glad when I got to move on to adulthood as an SPL, I am really looking forward to moving on to adulthood by moving on from Cub Scout leadership. There is a huge difference in Boy Scouts, since in many ways the most important thing you need to do is show up, be present, be interested. There is a time limit on being a Cub Scout leader and doing it well, being responible for every bit of making the program interesting and fun. You have to be 100% on when doing that. But being a Boy Scout leader the rest of my life is something I really look forward to because for that I just need to be myself - my preparation is the normal self-improvement I would do anyway, and I just need to keep up with whatever the young men are planning and doing. For my pack, if they'll have me, I hope to stay connected by helping launch the Tiger Den each Fall for at least the next few years. Even though I'm Cubmaster, I still spend most of my time of the year with my son's Webelos den, but as we launch our year each September, the last couple of years I've been acting as Tiger Den Leader until the Tiger parents figure out what this Cub Scout thing is all about - shared leadership, cooperative effort, fun, silly, etc. I'm also able to show them just how easy it is to be engaged in the program and the pack. I now know that the successful launch of the Tiger den is probably one of the most important things necessary for developing ongoing pack leadership and involvement of adults.

[Basementdweller]

I spent 3 years as a webelos den leader and an ASM with the troop.

 

Our cross over rate was near 100%, we always would lose one or two.....

 

[NJCubScouter]

First of all, Eagle92, you're right to shout a little about den leaders and den chiefs. My son was trained as a den chief (and got that extra cord, whatever it's called) but I saw no indication that the den leaders he was "chiefing" for had den leader training, much less training in how to use a den chief. Is that part of Den Leader Specific training? (If they even call it that any more; it has been a long, long time since I had that.) These den leaders really didn't know what to do with my son.

 

As for the actual subject of the thread, it is difficult for the reasons 5yearscouter mentions. Boy Scout leaders who "go back" to the pack level are very rare around me. I think the fact that adult leadership in Cub Scouts is more "intensive" does not make too many people want to go back after their own sons are out of the program.

[Brewmeister]

The first lesson in any cub scout leader training should be "how to delegate effectively."

 

I will agree that troop leaders tend not to want to go back to the pack level because of the work involved. I also think it is because they are "done" mentally in dealing with very young boys. Boy scouts, particularly in an outdoor active program, attracts a leader with different interests than the cub scout level, particularly the early artsy-crafty years.

 

Good grief, I'm sounding like Kudu.

 

Another factor in my observation is how career boy scouters view cub scouting...let's just say it's often not very favorably. They have to live with it, that doesn't mean they have to like it.

 

Which is ironic, if you think about it, since so many troops have minimal recruiting outside of cub scouts and are dependent on crossovers for survival. "Send us your webelos but don't bother us until then," in other words.

[Eagle92]

Brew,

 

You ain't joking about how some long term scouters feel about Cubs. Heck I had a member of the council camping committee tell me "Cubs don't need to camp."

 

So every time I go to an outdoor event where I will see him, I make darn sure to wear my "blue terror" uniform. Also make wise alecky remarks on occasion about how I'm transporting my gear on my back while he's "acting like a CS parent" driving his stuff to his campsite or wherever he is setting up.

 

I had one long term scouter adamant that the council whad to move one of the council level Cub Family camping weekends b/c that is always the district Boy Scout camporee weekend at the camp. Luckily the SE was on the Cub Scout side on this matter. Also luckily for all involved, we were able to change some dates around, otherwise the Boy Scouts would have been outta luck.

 

And don't get me started on the district committee. Until Feb. I was the only regular Cub Scouter on the committee, and everything was BS oriented. Heck when I did attend last meeting, I had to interject some stuff in regards to Cub Scout advancement stats (way off), dates for the district calendar, and remind folks of upcoming events that relate to their jobs.

[briantshore]

Good Topic.

This is exactly why I am in my current position. When my son crossed over I told the scoutmaster that I was going to stay with the Pack. Even though I did not have another younger son, I had seen how the pack had struggled without the experianced leadership. I later joined the troop as a Assistant Scoutmaster. My first priority is the pack, but I was hopeing to form that bridge between the 2 levels. That was 4 years ago, and I am just starting to see the results from my efforts.

 

[Eagledad]

Hi all

 

Everything that has been said is true, however the one factor that isnt being discussed is the problem of getting cubs to the troops. The BSA loses over half of the families crossing from Cubs to Scouts. Also, and I don't know the exact figure because it has changed (for the worst), but we lose a lot of Webelos going from first year to second year.

 

Now I blame the daunting 5 year Cub program, but we are stuck with it and need to find some way of attacking the problem broadside. A troop representative for the pack is an idea that might be worth testing. I don't think the rep has to be very active, just take on an advisory role, especially at the Webelos level. If the pack could get the advice of an experienced scouter, it might help make the pack leaders job easier for everyone.

 

As for the troop, Im wondering how hard it would be to ask an ASM to be an advisor for the pack. Take responsibility to coordinate some Webelos/Troop activities and do Den Chief training for the Den Leader and Scout. At the very least, if the troop rep could just identify a week Webelos den, that would be a huge step in trying to help those scouts.

 

I know a lot of us have already or still work with the pack, but it's not accepted as a general idea at the District level. That's what I'm suggesting here. Until National figures out that their biggest problem in scouting today is the five year Cub program, we will have to come up with our own fixes.

 

I think its worth a try.

 

Barry