Jumping ship or jumping troops?

[Second Class]

Without using too broad a brush, a number of my (local) transfer scouts have been laden with "issues" .

Twice we have had scouts join us, then immediately ask for a BOR.

 

Since the second time of this happening, I have taken to slow walking new applications now. I / we sent one scout away, as he was midway through his Eagle project and got cross ways with his Scoutmaster.

 

I have really felt abused by these scouts transferring to us, then asking for a BOR. It's like they have messed their bed and want to move down the hall.

 

As for the Life scout, he was told we'd take him after he made amends with his SM. His Scoutmaster

is a very respected fixture in the city. I met with him twice about his scout, and we agreed on a course of action. In the end, that scout found a troop in another county.

 

So how do you deal with transfers, that for all appearances, of scouts that had "hit the wall" with their old troop?

[Cito]

I changed troops a couple times as a scout. Better to change troops than leave scouting when you need a change. Like so many decisions in life, there is never a perfect time but you can't wait forever.

 

As the new troop your question is really just why they are making the change. Then you have to decide if you're really better for the boy given their reasoning and offer them honest feedback. In the end we are here to help in these decisions. It won't be the last time they have to decide on leaving a troop, a job, a relationship, etc. Treat it as learning.

[Basementdweller]

We have received a couple of scouts like this so far this year.

 

One shook the SM's hand and asked if he would get credit as SPL in his old troop.....I mean immediately.......SM handled it the way I would have....No you need to lead our troop, our SPL election will be in two months, you are welcome to try then..... Never saw him again.

 

Had another whose mom had nothing good to say about the previous troop or SM. The CC handled this one, telling her that she would be saying the same things about us in 6 months and she should go somewhere else....I never did see her or the scout.

 

We have lost a couple to a neighboring troop....

 

One was because moms new BF, who she cheated with while hubby was out with the troop.....CC said new BF was morally inadequate or something like that and was not adult leader material for our troop.....she took her boy to another troop who has lower adult leader standards.

 

Lost another boy to a non-camping troop....

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

We have had the opposite luck with transfers. Even if we were a little more strict with MB acquisition, they stuck with us. Let's face it, if you join us, you're drinking our koolaide!

 

Likewise for the parents. They were good people and greatful that we accepted their boys. We got real leaders from each of them.

 

Now, one or two of those boys parted ways once he or his friend made Eagle, but none asked us to cut corners. Or, if they did, they accepted our "well, no" cheerfully.

 

That's not to say some of those boys weren't anything but trouble.

 

We do try to touch base with the old SMs, but we also take their report with a grain of salt. Sounds like you've done the same. So, don't let the bad apples ruin the pie. Have a warm handshake ready for every transfer.

[Eagle92]

We had a Scout, made it to Star with us and was in out Leadership Corps transfer to another troop for the stated reason that the meetings interefered with his band schedule, but there was some speculation among us youth that it was not getting elected SPL.

 

Anyway he spent about a 12-18 months with them, got Life, got bored with them, and transferred back.

 

We welcomed him with open arms and he got Eagle eventually.

[Lisabob]

I have seriously mixed feelings on this one.

 

On one hand, it is easy to understand that you don't wish to be taken advantage of, and it does seem sketchy that the first thing a new troop member would do is to ask for a BOR when you barely even know each other.

 

On the other hand, regardless of how respected the other SM in question is, it is possible that the relationship between the other SM and the transferring boy is just not one that will work out. Or that the culture of the previous troop was toxic for that particular boy, maybe in ways that the other SM just does not even see or understand.

 

Telling a boy, basically, "you have to make it work with your former SM before we'll consider you" will likely result in that boy dropping out of scouts. It may also fail to recognize the very real need some kids have to find a "safe haven" in their lives, when their former troop was anything but that, for them.

 

Not sure how or if that helps anyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GKlose]

Had one case of this :-)...

 

A Scout was upset with us, mostly about not getting credit for a non-existent PoR, during a time period he was away from the troop (actual details provided on request). When it became clear to him that he would actually have to hold a PoR in order to credit for one, he became upset and began "exploring options."

 

He talked to leadership of another troop (who did check with us for our side of the story), they informed him that not only would he have to hold a PoR in their troop, once he was elected for one, but that their troop had attendance standards (80% of meetings and outings, to my knowledge) that he would be expected to meet. The Scout thought about it a little, and came back to our troop.

 

The odd part, to me, is the elapsed time. The initial request from the Scout came in May 2011. He came back to our troop ("to rejoin", his words) in Jan 2012. The "exploration" took about 8 months total.

 

One other quick story -- one night, a second-year Scout from another troop (same one as the one above) showed up at one of our meetings, with his mom. As a (former) membership chair, I make it my business to make sure that a PL or SPL pulls a Scout into immediate activity, and to greet the parent. Mom tells me they are thinking of transferring, but doesn't disclose the reason.

 

The following weekend, I was doing my second Woodbadge weekend, and the SM from the other troop was there too. I knew who he was, but hadn't really talked to him before. So I said hello, and I also told him that one of his Scouts had approached us. I told him that I don't believe in poaching and had not contacted them beforehand, they just showed up. He thanked me, told me he knew who it was, and he told me that there were issues with the family that they'd been trying to work on. Later on, he told me that everything was fine with them, and they were staying with his troop.

 

If I learned of a Scout seriously thinking about leaving our troop, I would tell them about the other two troops in town, and how each of us are slightly different, and tell him there is no harm in trying to find a better fit.

 

Guy

[Beavah]

Yah, there are three kinds of transfers, eh?

 

Transfers because of a family change of residence or schedule. Yeh do what yeh can for the lad, though a good fit is not guaranteed.

 

Transfers fairly early on lookin' for a better fit. Yeh have some discussions about how your troop operates, what they're lookin' for, and come to a mutual decision about whether this really will be a better fit.

 

Transfers as older scouts because of arguments with their troop's leadership. I reckon these are da most problematic. In the worst case, it's a lad or parents who have had behavioral problems in da other troop. I know one case where a bully transferred into and effectively wrecked two different troops. In lots of other cases, it's folks who are just sorta disruptive and disagreeable. Often enough it's a boy and/or his parents lookin' for da easiest road, and ready to steamroll any obstacle in the boy's path. I think these transfers yeh have to be a bit cautious about, talk with da previous troop, and set clear ground-rules up for. I know a few troops that just won't accept in-town transfers at Star or Life rank for da reasons Second Class describes. In all cases it's a bit like a divorce after a relatively long marriage, eh? It's hard bein' the rebound relationship.

 

I reckon in all cases, though, with a transfer scout yeh have some extra hurdles to overcome in terms of da boy's and parents' expectations of scouting, so yeh need to make some extra efforts at communication from the very start. Good fit works both ways, so if you're not seein' it, sometimes it's OK to gently re-direct 'em to other options.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[packsaddle]

We've had a couple of the ones Beavah mentions as problematic. They were so conflicted with their former unit that they quit scouting completely as early teens. But a buddy in our unit convinced them to consider switching to ours after they had been out for a couple of years. So they arrived and we treated them like 'prodigal' friends and they responded with great enthusiasm. One had quit as a Life scout and he finished Eagle with a really nice project and then he stuck around as part of the SP to help with the new guys.

The other one didn't make Eagle but he was very active. He just wanted to do outdoors stuff and didn't seem interested in advancement.

 

Of course we've also had the ones who move from another state.

We've never had any big problems, at least not any bigger than the ones who have lived here and been in the unit the entire time. I suspect this is something that you have to work with on a case-by-case basis.

[Beavah]

Yah, packsaddle, that's a good one, eh!

 

I had forgotten about Type 4 in da Beavah taxonomy of transfers.

 

Lads that have been out a while and then get sucked back in because of friends or a change of circumstances. Not to "finish Eagle" but because somethin' about scoutin' was still in their blood that they couldn't shake. Sometimes this happens because da sports scene has changed, they realize they don't care as much about Varsity soccer as they used to, etc. They tend to be a safe bet. Yeh don't get da parental pressure, yeh aren't likely to see behavioral problem high schoolers say "I want to be a Boy Scout", and scoutin' at that age they aren't usually doin' for da wrong reasons. Plus like the divorce case, you're not da rebound relationship, eh? They've had some time to process things. Not a guaranteed fit, of course, but a pretty good bet. I know lots of units that considered lads like this some of their best.

 

Beavah

 

[IM_Kathy]

as a parent of a scout and "jumped" troops - I do like to find out what others coming in are wanting.

 

My son and 3 friends all switched after just a year or so and all were tenderfoot... so it was easy for the new trooop to work with them on their requirements before doing SMC and BOR

 

with lower levels it is easier - but any rank I don't think it's right for someone to immediately ask for a SMC or BOR - after all we are suppose to be asking them about how they are doing in life and in the troop and what they see as things needed changed or improved with the troop... if they've only been there a couple weeks how should they know?

[advancement lady]

I'm glad I found this one ~

 

I am currently in this situation .... my Life scout started high school and made the school show chior. Unfortunately, they meet every Monday night which is the same night as scouts! We are looking for another troop to join because he wants to make Eagle and work on his palms. He also enjoys camping and is in a Jambo troop. Anyway, I am looking for a troop for my two boys ~ Life and Eagle.

 

I am glad I was able to be prepared for the situations we may run into. (people thinking that we have an alternative motive)

 

Question being ~ Would it be out of line for us to do troop visitations? We have three troops in our area that meet on Tuesdays. One is not a good fit, but would it be out of line for us to visit the other two? Our current troop has been informed of our decision and we are going to try to stay with our current troop until December if we can find a way to keep the Life Scout active with the troop.

[Beavah]

Would it be out of line for us to do troop visitations?

 

Of course not. In fact, I reckon it would be pretty silly if yeh didn't go visit! Go see how things feel, talk to youth leaders and adult leaders and such.

 

One of da things I think is also hard for older boy transfers is that yeh can't just step into a leadership role with a bunch of strangers, the way yeh had a leadership role in your old program. It takes six months to a year to get used to the new place, get to know all of the guys, figure out how they work... and to stop saying "at my old troop we did it like this".

 

Part of visitin' is to get a sense of that youth dynamic. Is there a good group of high school aged scouts where the lad can be a follower for a bit while he learns da ropes and gets used to things? Or is he likely to be one of only a couple older boys where he's goin' to be thrust into things? Is that what he wants? Are the other boys likely to be accepting or resentful of that?

 

That youth/peer dynamic is goin' to be most important, eh? So definitely have him visit. Several times even, includin' a couple without mom and dad.

 

Beavah

 

[JMHawkins]

Lads that have been out a while and then get sucked back in because of friends or a change of circumstances. Not to "finish Eagle" but because somethin' about scoutin' was still in their blood that they couldn't shake.

 

The fellow who ran the IOLS class I took had a story about this sort of thing. A couple of scouts dropped out after a couple of years, but one of their friends stayed in and stayed active. By and by, he earned Eagle, and invited his friends to his ECOH. Part of the ECOH was a slideshow of the new Eagle Scout's entire scouting career, from his first campout all the way forward. His friends saw some old pictures of themselves out having fun in the woods as new scouts, plus saw more recent pictures of their friend having great adventures after they'd dropped out. It reminded them how much fun they had camping, and they were kind of jealous of the stuff their friend was still doing.

 

"You can always sign back up." the SM told them.

 

And they did. Aged out active and having fun.

[Second Class]

Lisabob, this scouts issues are not personality related but a matter of a serious lapse of ethics issue. That was the "problem" I wanted him to square with this Scoutmaster; his Scoutmaster told me he was not going to sign his Eagle project; I didn't want to be put in that position. Having boys change troops then ask for a BOR is bad enough!

 

Advancement lady, changing troops for a reason such fine. We had a scout change for the same reason. It's always good to shop around for troops to see what program they offer and if it "fits" for you.