For The Youth ONLY

[BSA24]

How will adults doing scouting for themselves distract from the youth more than adults surfing the internet and posting messages on facebook during their downtime? We aren't smart enough to ensure the youth come first and still make room for some adult scouting as well during a scout meeting?

 

Badges more important than the knowledge? WTH is that about? Badges are the inexpensive method Scouting has used since the beginning of time to spark interest in people learning new things and making themselves more valuable. That doesn't mean the patch is more important than the knowledge. It is simple recognition, as Ernest Seton saw many, many years ago, that giving out badges for accomplishments motivates people to undertake the accomplishments.

 

I still do not understand any of the resistance to the idea. So far, the objections are:

 

* You just want to be awarded badges! You childish, greedy, selfish, patch whore!

* Adults can only do one thing at a time. Any attempt to learn anything new will cause adults to self-destruct as scout leaders and will bring BSA to its knees

* This is the way we've always done it

 

Is that about right? Not really a very powerful argument so far.

 

Did anything bad happen prior to 1952 that is evidence there will be a problem other than BSA multiplying its membership by leaps and bounds?(This message has been edited by bsa24)

[JMHawkins]

BSA24:

 

Adults can only do one thing at a time.

 

This part is true, at least if you want them to do it well. People can multitask, but they tend to do a poor job on the tasks. People do a much better job when they focus on one thing at a time.

 

Any attempt to learn anything new will cause adults to self-destruct as scout leaders and will bring BSA to its knees

 

Nobody is saying that, so why do you insist on exaggerating? It's a poor debate tactic and not one we should model for the youth. They'll see enough of it when they pay attention to their first political campaign anyway.

 

I've been suggesting reasons that adults engaging in advancement-like activities at the unit level isn't a good idea. You're certainly welcome to disagree, but please try to avoid straw-man arguments. They're quite annoying.

 

 

 

[BSA24]

The reasons you've given look like straw man arguments to me.

 

You have a job. You have a hobby. You are a scout leader. You can also take a class in school, or you can also attend training. To say that someone is incapable of wearing more than one hat is absurd. Come on.

 

 

[BSA24]

The reasons you've given look like straw man arguments to me.

 

You have a job. You have a hobby. You are a scout leader. You can also take a class in school, or you can also attend training. To say that someone is incapable of wearing more than one hat is absurd. Come on.

 

 

[BadenP]

BSA24

 

Your main argument has been "the ability for adults to earn rank and skill badges would make scouting more fun for the adults." To me that sounds self serving and totally ridiculous. You are also implying that to be a leader, teacher, and role model to these boys is not enough, that you need more recognition by earning patches, come on now you sound like a child. There are plenty of recognitions you can earn as an adult scouter, why do you need to regress to competing with your scouts? You have offered absolutely NO VALID reasons to create or support your idea. Your motivation IMO for being a scout leader is highly questionable.

[JMHawkins]

You have a job. You have a hobby. You are a scout leader. You can also take a class in school, or you can also attend training. To say that someone is incapable of wearing more than one hat is absurd. Come on

 

Yeah, I'm not saying you can't wear more than one hat, I'm just saying wearing another hat during troop meetings and activities is going to take away from wearing the hat that helps the scouts. Sure, you can do it. You'll be distracted from the meeting or the campout.

 

Outside the troop, sure, knock yourself out. But the unit exists for the youth. The focus should remain on them.

[TAHAWK]

Name-calling. Quite inspiring. 0___0

[johnponz]

BSA 24 is one guy I do not understand. He says that he does not wear knots on his uniform but wants to be able to earn/wear rank badges.

 

His positions seem just strange to me.

[johnponz]

double post.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[NJCubScouter]

I do not think this is mainly a time or distraction issue. I do think that for the boys' sake, it makes sense for the adults and Scouts to have distinct roles, and adults earning youth ranks blurs the line a little too much for me. But mainly I think it is just a little silly (or maybe more than just a little) for a 30 or 40 year old man to be passing requirements that are age-appropriate for an 11-17-year-old. Let the boys do their thing, and we do our thing. I think an adult can have more than enough "fun" in the program (while still serving the youth, which is the main reason we are here) without doing youth advancement.

[Eamonn]

There are a number of reasons why after all these years I'm still around Scouts and Scouting.

Lord knows I have more than my fair share of knots, beads and all that type of stuff.

Part of the reason is that some part of me wants in some way to pay back the guys who back when I was a little Lad invested so much of their time, energy and treasure in little me.

I had a wonderful time as a Scout and later on as a Venture Scout.

Of all the recognitions, beads, knots and badges I've ever received the one I hold most dear is my Queen's Scout Award.

It's strange when I think back, I don't dwell on marching into the chapel in Windsor Castle. I dwell on me freezing my tail off while hiking over Dartmoor or feeling sorry for myself as I hiked the Pennine Way.

More than anything I want the kids I serve to get as much out what they do in Scouting as I did.

To this end, I've sat on committees that were supposed to ensure that this would or might happen. I have trained other leaders, some who had all the skills and know how. Some who had no knowledge what so ever.

Along the way I have as an adult made some truly wonderful friends, in fact most of my best friends are Scouter's. I've been allowed to be part of the lives of a great number of great kids and been welcomed into their families.

 

The sad part is that I'm painfully aware that I'm not as young as I once was and trying to keep up with a group of teenagers is now almost impossible. Something I found out a few weeks back when I took a group out on the water kayaking. They were kind enough not to say anything but I knew I was holding them back. Next time I'll take them sailing!

 

Scouts and Scouting has to be all about the youth.

When we lose sight of that we open a can of worms that causes more harm than good. Harms many great volunteers who do what they do just because they have the good of the kids at heart.

I'm comfortable enough in my own skin not ever to have to compete or prove myself capable to anyone.

 

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things"

Ea.

[SSScout]

Well said, Eamonn.

 

My reading of the ideal Scout Troop is the SM teaches the PLs, and Troop Guides/Instructors, and they teach the other boys. The Other Boys. Often, the SM is not the skilled axeman, or cook or knot tie-er, and hopefully another leader is there to teach the skill. Sometimes it is self taught , read the book, look at the pictures or video, and the skill will come to the one involved.

If the adult is concerned with "earning " a rank, maybe that is a good thing, it can lead to being proficient in the skill. But maybe, just maybe, if the adult is interested in the skill for it's own sake, THAT is sufficient to the boy. Scoutson is like that. If I am splitting wood, he takes an interest in that. If I do a crossword puzzle, he will sometimes come and read over my shoulder. Even so prosaic an activity as properly loading a truck with brush and treelimbs to take to the dump (where the load is ground up into mulch, which we can then take back) so it can be unloaded quickly (there is a technique), was very interesting to him. Any skill is something to be "passed on".

But does the Scout leader need another "rank"? There are recognitions to note our skill and training and service. Powder Horn, EDGE (shudder), Wood Badge beads, "Trained", leetle rectangles of knots, "Staff" of camp, oh there are lots of bangles to wear if that is your desire.

And if one thinks about it, there are lots of skills and stuff that we learn and do and know that do not have a scrap of cloth as a result. Archery Range Safety Officer. CPR-AED. Merit Badge Counselor. Troop Treasurer. Pop Corn Kernal. District Eagle Coordinator. Need I go on?

I have to agree with the idea that an adult leader does not need to "earn" a youth rank. It is sufficient to know that we are facilitating the boys (and girls?) in doing what they need to do. Learning to live by the Scout Promise and Law. (oops... Venture promise? Law of the Pack? Oh, you know what I mean).