raisinemright Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I take particular pleasure in calling school principles to tell them their flag is in need of replacement. Once, I was walking into a school for an evening activity and noticed that I had stepped on a piece of red fabric. Sure enough, the flag, what was left of it was shredding and falling on the ground. I called the principal and told him he needed a new one and chided him gently for not even looking at it for probably several years. He said "Where do I get a flag? Do I have to call my Congressman?" I replied "No. You go to Wal-Mart." It was replaced the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA24 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Flag etiquette is published by the government for the military and government offices to use in displaying the flag. Private owners of the flag are encouraged to follow it. Private owners of the flag do not have to follow it. The actual cloth flag is the private property of whomever paid for it. If they want to leave it in the rain, fly it tattered, fly it upside down, burn it, or write nasty things on it, it is their property to deface. I'm not really into trying to control other people's treatment of their flags any more than I scold them for letting their grass grow. It's their grass. It's their yard. I think it is nice in the Scouts how we are ceremonial around the flag. But living in a free capitalist country also means that flag worshippers are going to be offended by some. And that's OK, because it is better to be offended than oppressed. (This message has been edited by BSA24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I take particular pleasure in calling school principles to tell them their flag is in need of replacement. Yah, hmmmm.... I was talkin' a few years ago to the head of the school superintendent's association in my state. He was commenting on how most school superintendents tried to avoid settin' up flagpoles whenever they did new construction, just because they were all sick and tired of dealin' with well-meaning citizens calling them every week with complaints about flag protocol, real or imagined. Their membership felt it was a waste of taxpayer dollars on staff time dealin' with da issue in the midst of all the other things they needed to do. Sometimes our well-intentioned efforts can have unintended consequences, eh? Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle732 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Our Scout Building has the only public flag poles in town, a set of 3 poles. We fly the Maryland and Pennsylvania flag (since we're on the state line and serve both states) and the American flag. I've never had anyone come to me and say we're not flying the flag correctly, maybe that's because we follow the protocol, it's really not that hard to do. We consider it a community service to display the flags. We've recently added a POW/MIA flag donated by the local VFW. Schools not installing flag poles because it's too much trouble? Seems if an unpaid volunteer Souter can make sure the flag flies properly an overpaid school administrator with a fully paid staff should be able to. I'm sure there's a few Scouts in that school that would be glad to do it for them. Unintended consequences or convenient excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankpalazzi Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 "Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the Flag can be displayed 24/7 if it it lighted and can be flown in bad weather if it is an all-weather flag, i.e. nylon." That IS correct! Also, the American Legion publishes a book called, "Let's Be Right About Flag Etiquette!" Your local post can probably get them for you free or at minimal cost. ($1.00 ea.) or http://www.legion.org. It's written in easy to understand language with lots of FAQs. Everyone in our Troop gets one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 While BSA24 is correct in his interpretation of people can display their own flag in any manner they wish it is because there is no penalty for doing so. However, the US Flag Code was initiated because there were many ways various organizations were displaying and a lot of them differed from one another. It was the definitive answer on how to display the flag to show proper respect. Of course, one can display the flag any way they wish, but if they wish to do so showing proper respect, the US Flag Code says how it is done. Now that means nothing to some people, but we live in a free country so they can do anything they wish with the flag. Whenever I see a flag displayed contrary to the US Flag Code it means one of two things, 1) Ignorance of the Code, or 2) an attempt to display disrespect for the Flag. I tend to go with option #1 unless it is explained to me I should be considering #2. I see people of certain heritage flying their secondary flag under the US Flag. The "Rebel" flag is just fine there as far as I'm concerned, but someone of Norwegian heritage flying the national flag of Norway UNDER the US Flag causes me concern. It may emphasize their respect for their heritage, but according to international codes, it show great disrespect. Flying the Flag upside down or under another flag is just ignorance at best, otherwise, disrespect. As one who has both the US Flag and Confederate Battleflag displayed in my living room, both are displayed with a Don Troyiani reprint of the unit my great-great-grandfather served in during the war. No one ever visiting has ever questioned my feelings towards minorities. Respect is respect depending on the context it is portrayed in. Now, if one wishes to emphasize the modern definition rather than historical context, fine, that's their choice, not mine. An acquaintance of mine from India told me that yesterday, he was a lot more gay today because he was able to stop at the fag shop on the way to work. To him it made perfect sense and I was glad he was a lot happier today having been able to stop and buy smokes on the way to work. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 yeah pchadbo, I'm familiar with The Simpsons, alright. I'm just not delighted by the assumption a poster here seems to have made that a) the owner of the actual (not cartoon) business in question is likely South Asian and b) therefore doesn't know about US flag etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well, I'm so sensitized to the concept of 'flag etiquette' that when I'm in that wonderful Caribbean country, I'm really careful about their flag and national emblem (they have some weird laws there, I didn't want to discover a new one by accident). But it IS really humid there and hot (though not as hot as it is up here this summer) so I needed a bandana. They were selling bandanas with their flag printed on them. So I noted to a woman shopkeeper that I didn't want to show disrespect and the lady laughed so much that she told her friends and they laughed at me too. She said, no problem mon, (no lie that's what she said), "everyone wears dem dat way, it is way to show pride". So I strapped one on. H'mmmmmm, somehow that doesn't sound exactly the best way to put it....but anyway I started to notice that sure enough, lots of people had flag bandanas. One guy was even using it to wipe grease off his hands. Now THAT is national pride for you. But I wouldn't try that up here although, the thought does bring to mind a few t-shirts that I have seen on some magnificent women.... Hi Vicki! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 > I would agree that the flag code shows one scheme for displaying the flag in a respectful manor. As I noted earlier, I took my own survey among veterans that I encountered, and most said they thought it was more important to display the flag than to take it down at night. But perhaps you will be pleased--- six months or so ago I removed the flag that had become tattered in that service, and I haven't replaced it ---- yet, anyway. Does that make you happy? I ask that as a serious question, since the alternative would be flying a replacement flag 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 > I would agree that the flag code shows one scheme for displaying the flag in a respectful manor. As I noted earlier, I took my own survey among veterans that I encountered, and most said they thought it was more important to display the flag than to take it down at night. But perhaps you will be pleased--- six months or so ago I removed the flag that had become tattered in that service, and I haven't replaced it ---- yet, anyway. Does that make you happy? I ask that as a serious question, since the alternative would be flying a replacement flag 24/7. The US Flag Code might be one of many schemes, but it is the only one designated by Congress as the proper one. There were many schemes prior to 1923, and it was decided at that time to designate one, which Congress did. I also know a lot of veterans, many which understand the military ethics of the US Flag, and yet don't always know the US Flag Code for civilians. Other veterans are quite aware of the US Flag Code and follow it diligently. It is also good to note that the US Flag Code has changed many times over the years. The point of this thread is not to make me happy. Do I get upset with others when they don't follow the Code? Not very often, As I stated before people don't follow the Code for one of two basic reasons, #1 They don't know the code or #2 They don't care, they just do what they want and don't worry about it being done respectfully. That is not meant to be judgmental, just an observation. Stosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 "As I stated before people don't follow the Code for one of two basic reasons, #1 They don't know the code or #2 They don't care, they just do what they want and don't worry about it being done respectfully." Kinda like Scouting - uniform, advancement, YPT ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acco40 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I don't fly any flags at my residence. However, when dealing with a flag, I try to do so from an educated and respectful position. If folks want to fly a flag, why don't they want to do it correctly? Sort of like scouting, if you make the effort and commitment to join, why not follow the rules & guidelines? By the way folks, the U.S. Flag Code is a federal law. Because there are no legal penalties does not mean one may ignore the law. A key bit of trivia - Scouts and Scouters do not wear a flag on our uniform (that is prohibited by the U.S Flag Code). We wear a flag patch, as do soldiers, that is not considered a flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 My apologies if my reference to the irreverent cartoon show Quiky Mart manager was somehow offensive. The s'leven stores hereabouts might well be managed by an Apu, or Hassan, or Serge, or Jose, or Chou. It is the wonder of the American Way that anyone can build a life here by serving the immediate desires of the passing throng. I seem to remember a family by the name of Marriott that did just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSA24 Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 > the U.S. Flag Code is a federal law. Because there are no legal penalties does not mean one may ignore the law. LOL That's exactly what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattlePioneer Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 > >> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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