One Oath Initiative

[CHLees3rd]

On another list/forum/group, I read that our National Commissioner, Tico Perez, told commissioners attending a course at the Philmont Training Center that the National Executive Board had approved the "One Oath Initiative" - doing away with the Cub Scout Oath, the Law of the Pack, the Venturing Oath and Venturing Code "One Oath Initiative" in favor of the using the Boy Scout Oath and Law for all divisions. According to the post, he explained it as Cubs will learn the words. Boy Scouts will live the words. And Venturing will carry the words on into adult life. (Tico is this accurate or are things missing?)

 

Im curious as to what others think of the initiative. Below is my reply to thread.

____________

 

I have two reasons why I oppose the One Oath Initiative.

 

My first objection has to do with the way Scouts progress through the program. The Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) has one promise and one law for all six of its levels. Girls generally start at as a Daisy and bridges up to the next level roughly every two years. Since every Girl Scout follows the natural progression through the levels, it makes sense that they share the same promise and law.

 

The Boy Scouts of America does not run like the GSUSA does. Most of our Scouts start in Cub Scout Packs as Tigers moving up every year towards WEBELOS before becoming joining troops as Boy Scouts. Up to this point the progression is pretty straight forward: Bobcat-Tiger-Wolf-Bear-WEBELOS-Boy Scout. It is at the Boy Scout level where things get crazy because of options.

 

Most Boy Scouts go through the program and then became Assistant Scoutmasters having never been Venturers: Boy Scout-ASM. Some Boy Scouts leave troops and join crews only being Venturers: Boy Scout-Venturer. And still there are other Boy Scouts who dual register as Venturers: Boy Scout/Venturer.

 

Add the transition from youth to adult adds even more craziness. You can have Boy Scout/Venturer Venturer/ASM ASM/Advisor and other related combinations.

 

This doesnt even take into consideration our Sea Scout program which just adds to the mix. Since the BSA does not have a natural progression of all Scouts from first grade to age 21, I do not see a need for the One Oath Initiative especially when the Cub Scout Promise, the Scout Oath, and the Venturing Code all say basically the same thing: Duty to self, duty to God, and duty to others.

 

My second reason is more personal. My son has special needs and our school district has a two-year kindergarten program for children with special needs. I have heard of other districts that run similar programs but call the first year kindergarten and the second year transitional. Since my school district calls both years kindergarten, my son is not yet eligible to join Cub Scouts. With nothing but time on our hands now, we recite the Cub Scout Promise, Law, Motto and the meaning of WEBELOS every night at bedtime. He is very close to reciting each one by himself. He smiles because he is learning it and I smile because his hard work is paying off. I have shown him my Cub Scout shirt and he has felt all the badges. I point to my Bobcat badge and tell him that it could be his first badge too just like it was mine. He cant wait to be a Cub Scout. This initiative would really screw up our plans!

 

Chazz Lees

 

[Sentinel947]

I think the differences help the uniqueness of the program. Furthermore, why fix something that isn't broken?

[Second Class]

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem

 

Need to squash this in the bud.

 

Each program is unique; What's the crying need for One Oath?

 

What's with the implication that Boy Scout's don't carry the oath to life? That's rather insulting.(This message has been edited by Second class)

[fred8033]

I like the idea and would very much welcome the change.

 

- Cub promise seams like a washed out version of the boy scout oath. The only meaningful words are the words that are also in the Boy Scout oath. "do my best" "duty to God and my country." "To help other people". As for "Law of the Pack", most people don't follow the jungle story theme and it's nothing specific. But the Boy Scout Oath is directly applicable and easy to understand. And it leads directly into the Scout Law.

 

- I myself can easily recite the boy scout oath and law. But after 12 years in cub scouts, I still stumble over the cub scout promise.

 

- Many cub scout leader were boy scouts and still remember the boy scout oath. They don't remember the cub scout promise.

 

- For scouts themselves...

 

---- Most Boy Scouts learn the Boy Scout oath and law by heart. We see value in that. It's something useful to remember their whole lives. Something to live by.

 

---- Few cubs remember the Cub SCout promise thru one meeting and I've yet to see one that remembers it from when they were cubs.

 

- I like the idea of starting young young kids thinking about the terms "honor" and values such as trustworthy, loyal, etc.

 

- I've never cared for installing the Jungle Book story in a promise. I'm okay structuring the program around it. But I'd rather not see it in the promise.

[BadenP]

 

I agree with the group on this one. Another stupid idea from National with no place to go. I think old Tico has way too much free time on his hands.

[howarthe]

I like the idea of one oath uniting the various scouting groups. Since they all say basically the same thing, it seems silly to word them differently in the different programs.

[moosetracker]

Personal, but I like it.

 

Cub Scouts, I can see it being a slightly easier on the little ones to learn, but not that much was cut out and it was way to close to BS oath, just made us Boy Scouters stumble as we got into it and then autopilot took over and all of a sudden we a spouting stuff the rest of the group are not..

 

Venturing - Way too long, and complex.. Who ever thought that one up had diarrhea of the mouth that day. When I was a troop guide for Woodbadge, I had to apologize for not learning it, I just couldn't.. I was in good company, non of my other TGs had learned it, nor the Course director. The Course Director and one of the TGs had been Crew Advisors for years.. They said their crews couldnt learn it either.. We all stood up their with cheat sheets and read the oath.

[NJCubScouter]

Is this for real, or is it April 1 again so soon?

[shortridge]

Silly. Learning different oaths is part of the process that separates the programs and makes moving up neat. It's like a password. Definitely a sort of rite of passage. Are Tico et al trying to leave their mark on the program with some legacy change?

 

The Venturing oath is nothing in comparison to the OA Obligation. That sucker just keeps on going like the Energizer bunny.

[Lisabob]

I don't know if I have really strong feelings one way or the other about this, but geez, doesn't Mr. Perez have something IMPORTANT to do? This seems like some rearranging of deck chairs to me.

 

If pushed to hold an opinion, I guess I'd say that there's some challenge to reflexively assuming that all BSA programs are all about Boy Scouts. Why not adopt the Cub oath for all? After all, many more boys are cubs, than are boy scouts...say that sucker every week for 12 years and you'll remember it just fine. And Mr. Perez's progression argument is silly. He can't be seriously saying that we'll just wait til the boys are done with Boy Scouts to start living the oath. Uh, no.

 

Still, I can't get all excited or worked up about this.

 

 

[SSScout]

 

I also see this idea as a solution in search of a problem.

 

The progression of the Cub Promise and Law of the Pack to the full fledged Scout Promise and Law I feel is appropriate to the age and experience of the boy. As for the Venture Promise and Code, they are another version of the values esposed in the previous Cub Promise/Law and BScout Promise and Law. Just worded differently and in a more adult manner.

 

I can see the reasoning behind the desire to simplify, but the need isn't there. Boys of Cub age, I feel, benefit from the progression of going from a simpler sense of what's "fair" to the more complex ideas explained in the BSP&L and the VO&C.

 

As for the Jungle Book aspects of Cub Scouting, I am sorry to see the gradual dropping of the references. All kids love a good story. The classic Kipling story is redolent of those qualities Cubs seem to seek: a gang or "Pack" to belong to, a family, a wise and benevolent leader, learning from wise, experienced tutors, the idea of a group accomplishing fun and worthy projects, the triumph of good over evil . All these things become,I feel, less accessible with a more beauricratic, one-size-fits-all version.

 

What lessons are learned from the Jungle Books stories? Why does Jesus teach with parables? It is because the ideas are sometimes better taught and learned from such indirect means. "Thou Shalts" often get ignored or skipped over, but a rousing tale of daring do will be remembered. It lets the hearer put the rule or consequence in his or her own life's context.

 

I need to think about another thread....

[desertrat77]

If National wants to streamline the oaths individually, great (like the Venture one), but each should be unique.

 

Smooth out wordiness, work on eloquence. Get some articulate folks on the project. Be it the BSA or the military, I think any oath/slogan/motto/creed that has been written since 1980 is the result of a committee of bureaucrats. Uninspiring and clunky.

 

Avoid one oath. It would reek of an impersonal form letter.

[qwazse]

I'm on the pro- side of this one. At least for venturers ...

 

My venturers stink at memorization. The always need "cheat sheets" when it comes time to say the oath in public.

 

We work closely with our sister troop. It would be nice to have more than just the outdoor code in common.

 

In another Crew with a close relationship to their troop, they go about memorizing the scout oath and law anyway.

 

Don't get me wrong, I *like* the venturing oath and code.(Having been a late teen once upon a time, I get the developmentally appropriate word choice.) But, my youth could care less. If Tico gets the average youth on the national youth cabinet, it may be a done deal. The venturers I've met don't have a chip on their shoulder about needing to "be an entirely different program" from Boy Scouts. From their perspective, saving time reciting 3 different oaths during joint activities translates into dismissal from flag two minutes earlier!

 

In fact, I would not be surprised if a seasoned venturer brought gave him the idea.

[fred8033]

This seems very easy to accomplish because the Boy Scouts use the "Scout Oath and Law". It doesn't have "Boy" in the title, in the oath or in the law. The Cub Scout oath refers to Akela which is a reference to a cute story and lend to use by Boy Scouts or Venturers. The Venturer Oath sounds like something Superman would say: "truth, justice and the american way".

 

I think the Scout Oath and Law are ready as is for adoption.

[bnelon44]

From what we found out earlier this month about the changes going into effect in 2014 of a more seemless Cub Scout-Boy Scout-Venturing program, this would make some sense. But I would like someone to validate this is more than an Internet rumor.