are Eagle projects covered by BSA insurance?

[Kim near Seattle]

I'm a relatively new committee chair, trying to figure out how BSA insurance works. I found an older thread here, but I'm hoping for some current, possibly more complete info.

 

One of our Scouts wants to put on a series of free science sessions in a local park for his Eagle project. District approves proposal. City says great, will let him use the park (and sign off as beneficiary), but wants proof of insurance and city listed as additional insured.

 

Scout filled out a form requesting proof of insurance and asking that the city be listed as additional insured. Our council says no, because an Eagle project isn't covered by BSA insurance but by the beneficiary's insurance. City is balking.

 

I'm having a difficult time understanding how an Eagle project isn't an official Scout activity.

 

Anyone run into this? Any ideas? Can the Scout's family go independent and purchase their own special event insurance?

 

In future, do I advise Scouts that they don't necessarily have coverage for their volunteers?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

--Kim

 

 

[moosetracker]

You seem to be mixing up two different insurances.. As a scout event all scouts will be insured if they break a leg or whatever.. The insurance you are looking for is insurance over burning down the park, or someone in the community (non-scout) breaking their leg over a electric wire you dangerously had strung out..

 

I don't believe even your troop can get something like that for a troop event.

 

I can get something like that for covering a District training I am running, more for the building we use as the people attending will all be scouts. I just don't think I can get that same type insurance at the troop level..

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm..

 

Either your council folks just don't know what's what, or there's been a msjor change in national policy which is goin' to affect Eagle projects across the nation, since a trustworthy scout and unit will have to tell every Eagle project beneficiary that they are assuming liability for the youth work (much of it off site) that scout volunteers are supervising. That should effectively kill all Eagle Projects nationwide, eh?

 

In the short term, have your troop file a tour permit and a request for insurance certificate indicating the City Park as additional insured for your troop attending the science day and volunteering to assist. That clearly is a troop activity, eh? . That should get all da different bureaucrats off the boy's back.

 

Then have your COR go have a sit down with your council's Program Director to express your displeasure and demand clarification. Your COR should insist on a conference call with da national office for confirmation. Since Richard drives by here occasionally and is generally a good egg despite da now infamous "Wheelbarrow Rules", ask that Richard Bourlon, national risk management director, be in on the call. Demand da clarification in writing, and explain that your Chartered Organization considers their action a breach of the Charter Agreement.

 

My guess is just that this is yet another case of how various folks in councils go off da rails when they get memos that they don't really understand, eh? Lots of times folks don't have the background to really understand the issues, and the BSA councils sometimes have a culture of officiousness rather than service.

 

Let us know how it goes one way or the other.

 

Edited to add: moosetracker, requests for insurance certificates listing parks or other property owners as additional insured are a routine thing that can be requested by any troop for a troop activity. However, accident insurance (a scout breaking his leg) is NOT automatic coverage, but rather is optional coverage that may or may not be purchased by the council or unit.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[bnelon44]

Here is what the Guide to Advancement says about Eagle Project insurance:

 

9.0.2.15 Insurance and Eagle Scout Projects

 

The Boy Scouts of Americas General Liability Policy

provides general liability insurance coverage for official

Scouting activities. Registered adult leaders are provided

primary coverage. Unregistered adults participating in a

Scouting activity are provided coverage in excess of their

personal insurance.

 

Every council has the opportunity to participate in the

BSA Accident and Sickness insurance program. It

provides insurance for medical and dental bills arising

from Scouting activities. If councils do not purchase this,

then units may contract for it. In some cases chartered

organizations might provide insurance, but this must

not be assumed. Most of these programs provide only

secondary coverage, and are limited to registered youth

and adults and those interested in becoming members.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, bnelon44, yeh realize that quote is no help whatsoever, right?

 

You and I and everybody else agree that an Eagle Project is an official scouting activity. But KimnearSeattle's council apparently has one of those more "unique" interpretations, eh?

 

B

[bnelon44]

Don't know Beavah. What I quoted says the council would have to buy into accident/medical coverage. Also, I don't know enough to know if the general public would be covered for events.

 

The advice of getting ahold of the council's Program Director is a sound one. The council puts on this sort of thing all the time and understands the liability.

[Beavah]

Oi!

 

BNelon44, there are two types of insurance available through the BSA. The one we're tallking about here is general liability insurance. That one is in force by virtue of the Charter Agreement, has high coverage limits, and applies only if yeh get sued for negligence or some other act for which yeh incur liability. It applies to people who can be negligent, like adults and property owners.

 

Accident coverage is a form of medical insurance, and as such is purchased on per-person basis, either by the council or the unit. It has low coverage limits, and applies on a secondary basis if the insured individual gets hurt during a scout activity. It will never apply to any person outside of the individual members for whom it is purchased, with the exception of guests who are participating because they are considering joining. That is not the insurance we're talking about here.

 

Beavah

[bnelon44]

So in this case the city is asking to be covered under BSA's general liability insurance?

[Beavah]

Yep, that's correct.

 

That's become the norm for many public parks when hosting "events" put on by outside groups, or when allowin' groups to do things like rock climbing or such on their property.

 

It's a nice feature and benefit of bein' involved with the BSA that we can provide this kind of support.

 

B

 

[The Blancmange]

I'll raise a contrary point of view for the sake of discussion. Ask the city if it demands insurance certificates from others who volunteer to do things for the city. Want to read to kids at our summer reading program? Let's see that ACORD Form 25. Gardening club want to plant some flowers at the park? How much are your limits?

 

Some organizations seem to believe they are doing a favor by "allowing" Scouts to perform Eagle projects, when in fact, they are receiving a substantial benefit as well.

[fred8033]

BNelon44 quoting the GTA is useful. I'd walk right in with that information and ask for the certificate. I bet someone just didn't know what they were doing.

 

Multiple times we've received a special certificate of insurance co-listing the city or some other group. For example, to have a float in the city parade, the city requires each group to provide proof of insurance with the city listed as an additional insured. One phone call to council. Then I get an email with a PDF certificate with the city listed as an additional insured. Done that one twice. Done a few others also. Usually does require a tour permit / plan though.

[eagle90]

We need a certificate naming the school where we meet as an additional insured. We need to give this to them at the start of every year. The council office just emails it to me.

[Kim near Seattle]

 

Just to clarify---my council (and by the way, it's not necessarily evident from my user name...) does issue certificates of insurance with others named as additional insured. It's just in this case, the council person has stated that _Eagle projects_ don't qualify.

 

With the support of posts here, particularly from Beavah (wish I could treat you to a cup of coffee as thanks), I am pushing harder. I will report back with the results.

 

Thanks, again.

 

--Kim

[ScoutNut]

Perhaps this quote from the 2011 Guide to Advancement will help -

 

9.0.2.14 Risk Management and Eagle Scout Service Projects

All Eagle Scout service projects constitute official Scouting activity and thus are subject to Boy Scouts of America policies and procedures. Projects are considered part of a units program and are treated as such with regard to policies, procedures, and requirements regarding Youth Protection, two-deep leadership, etc. The health and safety of those working on Eagle projects must be integrated into project execution.

 

This can be found here -

 

http://scouting.org/scoutsource/GuideToAdvancement/EagleScoutRank.aspx#90214

 

 

[Kim near Seattle]

My followup: Not sure if it was my call to the council or my e-mail complaint to National (which trickled back to council), but our Scout did receive his needed certificate of insurance coverage. The project is proceeding.

 

Thank you again to all of you for the reassurance that I wasn't crazy to expect BSA liability to cover the basics of an Eagle project!