eolesen Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Pushups for behavior modification is a form of hazing... It's right next to having Scouts singing "I'm a little teapot" for leaving personal gear behind at a camp out. Don't agree with the former, wish the latter was still an option, but the rules are what they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsmerud Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I'm a little teapot and the squirrel song getting lumped in with hazing is silly, but your right it is the rules now. Nothing gets a Scout to bring the right gear like having to suffer without because he forgot. Within acceptable safety limits of course. Plus the ever present can I borrow your headlamp builds teamwork and social interaction skills in young men anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Pushups for behavior modification is a form of hazing... Nah, it most definitely is not a form of hazing. It's OK to disagree with somethin'. It's OK to be opposed to somethin', to argue against it, to say you'd never do it yourself. It's not OK to be dishonest about it. We should be able to disagree about public policy without callin' it "fascism". We should be able to disagree about other things without callin' 'em "terrorism" or "abuse." To my mind, we do real harm to other folks and to communities when we turn an ordinary disagreement about approaches into extreme-line-in-the-sand life-or-death criminal accusations. So let's be a better example to our scouts and our communities, and not throw the "H" word around for ordinary exercise or singing goofy songs. Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eolesen Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Beav, I think we've had this discussion a couple times... I'm in agreement with you that neither activity counts as hazing in the purely legalistic standpoint. Unfortunately, the DE's and SE's I've spoken with *do* consider it as such, probably right up there in seriousness with the danger involved with Cubs pulling little red four wheeled wagons. They're the professionals, and they want to call it hazing, I'm done wasting my energy arguing with them about it.(This message has been edited by eolesen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callooh! Callay!1428010939 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hazing schmazing. Pushups are good. Why associate them with punishment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Outdoors Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Calloo, When you single someone out, it's bullying. Bullying is aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callooh! Callay!1428010939 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hey. I just got singled out in the post above. I'm being bullied. Sometimes someone singles themselves out with behavior that crosses a line of propriety, legality, or decorum. And sometimes the appropriate acknowledgment of their self advertised singularity is to remind them that, yes, there is an imbalance of power and the the power would like them to knock off whatever shenanigans they used to single themselves out in the first place. So, pushups aside (I don't think they should be associated with punishment) - you notice a boy REALLY bullying another boy in a very serious way: Unless we expand your definition of bullying, you'd be bullying unless in stopping the behavior you employed only passive behavior that does not involve an imbalance of power. That might even work sometimes. But the Jedi mind trick has its limitations(This message has been edited by Callooh! Callay!)(This message has been edited by Callooh! Callay!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If it's enough of a problem to call the kid out to do corporal punishment, it's enough to call the parents and send the kid home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Yah, hmmmm.... The broad, expansive PC definitions continue. Corporal punishment requires da deliberate inflicting of pain, eh? Pushups are not corporal punishment. Bullying is aggressive behavior that singles someone out and involves an imbalance of power? Yah, that would be like a parent ordering a lad to bed early in a loud voice? Come on, folks, let's get a wee bit of a grip, eh? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engineer61 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 "Corporal punishment requires da deliberate inflicting of pain, eh? Pushups are not corporal punishment." Give me 500 pushups! You'll be in pain when? As for "pushups being harmless"....try... http://offthebench.nbcsports.com/2011/03/29/boy-hospitalized-after-doing-pushups-as-punishment-cruelty-or-diary-of-a-wimpy-kid/(This message has been edited by Engineer61) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoutfish Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Page 133 of the ScoutMaster Handbook - Right hand side of page 1st yellow highlighted box of text: " Any enforced physical action such as PUSHUPS should not be used as punishment or discipline." Bold emphasis is mine, but the text specifically and intentionally says push ups. Page 133 of Scoutmaster's Handbook - Right hand side of page - Second highlighted box of text: " Physical discipline is not appropriate. Spanking, shaking, slapping, and other forms of corporal punishment should never be used by scout leaders. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 "Come on, folks, let's get a wee bit of a grip, eh?" You know a "discussion" has deteriorated to closed-ear arguing when one cannot think of any merits to support one's case and instead resorts to unequivocally declaring the "official" definitions of terms like "corporal" and "bullying" and telling others to get a grip. Instead of putting down those with another viewpoint, how about presenting a persuasive argument in favor of pushup punishment? Explain how drop and give me 20 is a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavah Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Instead of putting down those with another viewpoint, how about presenting a persuasive argument in favor of pushup punishment? As I've said, I'm not particularly an advocate of pushups, FScouter. Yeh need to ask other people for that. I'm just an advocate for not turnin' molehills into mountains, eh? I don't think it's necessary to make every discussion into accusations and such. Of course I certainly have used an "enforced physical action" on occasion. Things like makin' kids pick up the mess they left behind. No matter what the printed matter recommends, I reckon most of us will keep on doin' bad stuff like that. Last time I used an exercise response was for a young lad who had drunk a bit too much Mountain Dew and was just squirley. Told him to run around the block. Da ASPL went with him. He got back and said that was fun and then asked if he could do it again. I said "Sure, I'll time you this time." When he returned he was smilin', and ready to do his bit with the rest of the group without any more to-do. I suppose yeh think that I should have given him a time-out, and then when he didn't sit still for that, I should have lectured him, and then when he got belligerent about that, I should have sent him home? That's da way our modern world of ninnies and nannies treats active boys far too often, eh? Beavah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Turtle Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ALL OF YOU: Stop complaining and give me some laps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailingpj Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 My crew does push ups once in a while. Usually we do that during regatta season. The boatswain may say during practice that every compass card missed is a push up for the crew, or some other such thing. When that happens everyone participates. I also tell them that when they go on those rules to let me know cause I'll do it with them. There have also been a couple times where a bunch of the crew is just not liking sitting down working on quizzes and such, so I take everyone out for a run around the base. I hang near the back cheering on the people who are not runners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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