Adult to Adult Rudeness in Scouting

[BSA24]

> ever be surprised by the conduct of one scouter to another.

> bsa really does tolerate some horrendous conduct directed

> from adults to adults

 

I too was appalled by the behavior of scouters toward one another when I first got involved as an adult leader. Interrupting, stating opinions as facts, telling other people what to do boldly...

 

For the sake of discussion, let's group leaders into two groups: grown up boy scouts and everyone else. The grown up boy scouts still do a good turn every day before they go to bed, and they still mutter the scout oath and law to themselves in the morning while getting dressed or driving to work. Scouting for them is who they are. They live it, love it, and give it.

 

Then there's most everyone else.

 

They are parents doing something for their kids, they have no motivation to be nice to each other. These are not Boy Scouts. These are mostly not volunteers who give their time to other people's children. These are mostly parents of children who take over as leaders to ensure their own kids are safe, successful, and have fun. Not all, but most.

 

And in the Scouts, gone are all of the PC behavior controls present in the workplace. The restrictions on talking politics and religion, the restrictions on telling someone to shove it. None of that is there. Then you get a guy who is used to being the boss at work, and he starts barking orders or doing his best Steve Carrell impersonation with the other leaders, and they forcefully and loudly push back and remind him they don't work for him.

 

Most of these parents don't care about proper uniforming. They don't care about the oath, law, or any traditions of scouting. They only care about their son's success and safety. That's all they are there for. Yes, they may make some decent den leaders and cubmasters as side effect of their desires, but they are definitely not there to please the other unit's leaders.

 

So when cubmaster billy bob from pack 1 yells for Mary den leader of pack 2 to come here or makes some joke at her expense, she gets torqued around the axle and starts politicking against the guy with other leaders.

 

I used to be horrified. Maybe I still should be. I see units where this doesn't happen inside the unit, but apparently, many of us only behave at work because of the threat of being fired. Once that threat is removed, we push to the next available boundary and our behavior resides there.

 

It is sad, but I think it is unrealistic to expect boy scout behavior from people who are not boy scouts in spirit. They are adult leaders - and that's not the same.

 

BSA is big on training, but the training is all on how to deliver the program. There is no training left that asks the leaders to do scouting themselves any longer. That's all gone bye-bye and scout leaders, particularly cub scout leaders, are not big scouts. They are often peewee parents making sure billy gets all the badges.(This message has been edited by BSA24)

[JFL49]

BSA does offer training for adults that teaches respect, effective communication, leadership and team building skills, as well as managing conflict, etc: Wood Badge

 

And BSA offers the same program for youth: NYLT.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello BSA,

 

 

Sorry, I've never observed the acceptance and tolerance for rude behavior in any of the units with which I've been associated. In fact, one of the things about Scouting that I like is that in my experience both youth and adults are usually on their best behavior.

 

One of the reasons for that is that usually Scout units don't overstress youth and leaders to the point of emotional breakdowns. Parents can learn improved ways of managing their children that don't involve yelling, let alone hands on discipline.

 

Parents usually see their children at their best. Children usually see their PARENTS at their best. Both can be an education for the other.

 

So I would describe the kinds of rude behavior you describe as being rare in my experience.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Are you kidding? I see just the opposite. I see more times when folks make HORRIBLE messes of programs or volunteer assignment, then instead of any sort of accountability, everyone else smiles politely, folds their hands and says, "We all must be Scoutlike, mustn't we?"

 

I'm not saying you need to kick their dog and call their mother names, but how about a little accountability?

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Two Cub,

 

 

I had a parent who had just joined Cub Scouts this spring who agreed to read a story at our next den meeting. When the meeting night came along, her husband said she was working and wasn't able to do what she agreed to do.

 

Well, that was rude, and it was inconvenient for me. I had to wing it with the story.

 

However, one of the learned methods of leadership in Scouting is to check up on people who agree to do things and be sure they are ready to perform --- I didn't do that, so I share a measure of responsibility for that failure.

 

So yes, it takes some time and experience with people before you can rely on them to do what they say they will do. It takes a while before new families make an emotional commitment to supporting Scouting.

 

But that tends to come along over time. Not with everyone, but with quite a few people.

 

That's different from the bad behavior I heard described earlier though, I suggest.

[DeanRx]

It goes both ways...

 

I think BSA24 is over-generalizing just a bit.

 

Here's the thing, you get polite and rude people in real life. Scouting is real life. In real life, you have to deal with both types of people.

 

You have folks who volunteer and then don't follow through... happens in the workplace too. Its just that hopefully at work, their boss holds them accountable for it.

 

In my expirience, it takes about 2-3 interactions to discover who are the real "doers" in the group and who are the big talkers with little follow through. You also find out who is naughty and who is nice...

 

Then I try to associate and work with those who are doers and are scoutlike. I avoid the others like the plague.

 

My job as a leader is to run the program, not try to raise an adult-child to learn politeness b/c their parents failed to do so...

 

Adult to adult rudeness - happens all the time in real life, I don't think its more prevalent in scouting. It would be nice if more folks in scouting modeled the behavoirs our program attempts to instill in the youth. However, that is NOT the job of a leader - your job is to provide the program to the youth, regardless of the parent of the scout.