Where Societies Adult men?????

[Basementdweller]

As a youth, I remember going camping with my troop and there being a caderie of adult men hauling us too and from camp.....They camped away from us, played cards and had some adult beverages while we boys, did our scout thing....

 

 

So where are are the adult men?????

 

My Pack and Troop are single moms and grandparents raising their grand kids.......

 

Where have all the adult men gone??????

 

I look at the next 3 or 4 years of boys crossing into the troop and there are ZERO Dad's available to be recruited as and ASM to help the Troop.

 

 

So where have this generation of fathers gone?????

 

Video games or too self absorbed???

[AlamanceScouter]

Basement, I just don't know what to say to some of your posts other than I am darn lucky that I don't live in your part of Ohio. I truly do not have the kinds of Scout experiences you describe in many of your posts. Maybe we are just lucky to have the kinds of Scout programs and leaders that we have in my little part of the country.

[skeptic]

Base';

 

I hear you. We are the only troop on the west end of our city, which once was the core, but is now the "poor" end of town. We have not had younger males available to do the proper outdoor program for 10 years; our parents are wonderful, but either no male in the home, or have things that make them unable to be involved except peripherally. Same goes for the cub pack that meets at our location.

 

As such, we struggle to have a decent program in both units. And ours could be the next one of those about which Lisa speaks; we are very old, but we cannot draw the kids from the packs due to our small size and lack of extended program. I truly do not know if we will make it to our centenary,(we are in our 91st year), as I really need to have a replacement due to my own age and its related problems. The large troops with the "younger" males stay large, while we struggle.

 

Do not have the answer; just hope I find one. The best thing we have going is our meeting place; it is like a museum. But, of course, the interest in history by younger people is not as strong as it once was either.

 

 

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

Huh? I've read in these same forums that helicopter fathers are the scourge of this generation's scouts. But here I read that actually it's a dearth of dads that's the problem.

 

The way you phrase it, "adult men," is standard usage, but it may be inaccurately conflating the two things, "adult" and "men." The problem may be that males are becoming adults, and even fathers in the strict biological sense, but are not becoming men.

 

Manhood often crosses terrain that isn't along the path that immediately offers the least resistance and quickest gratification. But it's much easier to divorce than it used to be. Don't just blame the "adult men" though - "adult women" contribute to rising divorce rates too, and to that old adage about cows vs free milk.

[Basementdweller]

Your dead wrong Callooh......

 

Seen helicopter mom use her kids as weapons against dad......The Helicopter or Blanket moms are infinitely worse than the Fathers. Dealing with men is much easier fewer games. Had Cub mom rip me to shreds on facebook after asking her to pay for damage at the CO caused by her son......She may have remembered I was her friend, or did she?????? She pulled her son instead of paying for the damage, which was $20 for picture frames.

 

If my life in scouting were only as easy and fluffy as your.....More than enough adults so you can hover and smother your son and kill his scouting experience.

 

Skeptic.....your situation is identical. the dads we have are leary of the background check and the humiliation of failing it....

 

My fear is when SM retires I will not be able to take the boys camping and our outdoor program is dead...... I have no doubt the troop will die soon after that happens.....

[SeattlePioneer]

I started rebuilding my pack five years ago when it had one boy.

 

I was the male Tiger Cub Den Leader, then happened to recruit another male adult Tiger Cub Den Leader the next year. Five years on, ALL the Den Leaders have been men.

 

The wimmen are the Committee Chair and other Committee positions.

 

Perhaps my being a man gave other men "permission" to be Den Leaders?

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939]

"Your dead wrong Callooh......"

 

Well of course I'm wrong... and fluffy too, apparently. Fluffy? Who knew? I guess I'll have to watch out for that.

 

I don't envy your experiences with the mothers you describe. I hope your scouts have the good sense to be grateful for you, what you do for them, and your patience in putting up with the grief some parents give you. If you'll accept a hat tip of respect from a hovering smotherer, consider this to be one, for your continuing to do that for which your scouts should be grateful in the face of that about which you (rightly as far as I can tell) complain.

 

But which of the four factors I posited as contributory to the problem you pointed out is wrong? Or are they all wrong? They were, to briefly review:

... that a male can reach adulthood without achieving what has traditionally been known as manhood

... that manhood (as opposed to mere legal adulthood) may often require one to take something other than the path of least resistance or the route to immediate gratification

... that it's easier to get a divorce now than it used to be

... and lastly that women also share some blame for the rise in divorce rates and for enabling some male behaviors that may contribute to male irresponsibility

Which of those is wrong - or are they all wrong?

 

[JMHawkins]

Where are they?

 

Diven away from their families, mostly. Or encouraged never to be a part in the first place.

 

It's a multi-front problem: the education establishment treating boys as dysfunctional girls, popular culture portraying men as bungling idiots or violent thugs and little in between, family courts that are brutally unfair to fathers, no-fault divorce laws that make ending a marriage an easy thing for a woman (70-80% of divorces are initiated by the wife), little remaining shame in out-of-wedlock pregnancies, a lousy economy that has seen especially high unemployment for men...

 

Bottom line, our legal system and our culture are treating men as little more than fashion accessories - and ones of questionable taste at that - for women. It's not working out well for men, women, or children. Frankly, It seems to be a disaster for everybody, but the folks pushing both the cultural and legal bashing of men are too pig-stubborn to admit they're wrong.

 

It's better in some places than others, but it's a problem.

 

That's one of the things that makes BSA so important - it's one of the last places were a boy can be what nature intended him to be and not be shamed for it. Scouting celebrates masculine traits and attempts to mold them into what's needed to make a good man.

[shortridge]

^ Just laughing uproariously at some of this mysoginistic fearmongering (ovaries!! lesbians!!! Run!!!!!).

 

What balderdash.

 

Some of the best Scouters I have worked with are women. Our boys live in a world with women in positions of authority and power, and should know how to work with them just as much as with men.

 

Pining for the 1950s, when miserable couples stuck together for the sake of the kids - news flash, the kids know and the underlying tension and fighting affects them greatly - and when women were relegated to arts and crafts isn't going to fly today. The world has changed.

[noname]

Men or women leaders, Im thankful for whoever get the kids into scouting. However- In my pack the 'men' do not want to do anything! I've been told by each and everyones wife that fact. Go to a school open house and you see the same thing. The men are tired and need to play video games to unwind. I had a free ride for 1 leader to go to summer camp, FREE. I finally got a mother to come. The men didn't want to go out and have fun.

[Lisabob]

Eh, yeah. I live in a state where members of the legislature just got sanctioned (not allowed to speak in the legislature to which they were elected to be the voice of their constituents) for daring to say the "v-word" while talking about women's reproductive health (the body part that dare not speak its name). This, on the grounds that it ain't polite to talk about that and women are just getting so uppity, these days. So I'm not entirely surprised that women are suddenly being attacked and blamed for all of society's problems.

 

But you guys who are blaming women here - get a grip. Darn few women wake up one morning and say "you know, I think I'd enjoy being a single mom." Look at the economics of single parenthood - it is grueling. These moms are mostly just trying to get by and give their kids a decent life, making all sorts of sacrifices along the way. We should be applauding them, not castigating them. And yeah, my lesbian friends are really ruining our society. oh no! They're raising children in a loving household with two committed parents! We can't have that!

 

More to the point, if it weren't for the women who step forward around here in scouting, most cub packs and many troops and crews would fold. District committees would be unstaffed. Cub Day Camp wouldn't exist. And SP, I'm sorry you found your cub experience lacking IN THE 1950S - but c'mon, blaming all women 60 years later for that is sort of dumb.

 

Basement & Skeptic - I hear what you are saying, don't know how to fix it (basement, maybe have this conversation with that football coach and school principal, when you meet with them over the summer - recruit THEM? - not entirely joking, here). Seems like this is a situation where paid staffers (scoutreach) should be able to serve as second in command, etc, to support a unit with thin leadership. Or where there should be some kind of floating district-level position as "on-call ASM" for troops who would go camping, if only they could get a second registered adult to go?

 

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter]

We have been fortunate in our troop that we have good adult participation, both male and female. All are welcome on outings as long as they stay the heck out of the way of the scouts. We have had predominantly male participation in outings though.

 

Lisa, I guess its a matter of perspective and what you've personally experienced. I know some single moms who were abandoned by their husbands/s-donors (I don't want to say the 's' word) and some are so because of poor choices on their part. My experiences are:

 

Sister1: married an alcoholic, had kid, he left her

Sister2: affair with a 'separated' guy, had child, he took off

Niece1: affair with a 'separate' guy, had child, constant courtroom drama

Niece2: high school pregnancy, guy is a bum/banger, new boyfriend

Friend's daughter, pregnant, boyfriend dumped, new boyfriend

Son friend1, girlfriend pregnant, took off

Son friend2, girlfriend had child, child adopted out

Son friend3, girlfriend had child, they are still together

 

I guess there is enough examples out there to cover both sides, eh?

 

 

[Eagledad]

Its funny but Girl Scouts is asking the same question of women.

 

I can name three families off the top of my head where mom just packed up her bags and left dad with the kids. Im not talking about divorce, this was abandonment.

 

So I cant say if this is really a male problem.

 

We live in a culture where responsibility isnt considered a virtue. Mediocrity is encouraged and self centeredness is rewarded. As I have said in other post, values being encouraged in our culture today are anti-family. I guess some folks consider that progress.

 

I dont know if the lack of willing male volunteers is a result of bringing in more female volunteers or if its just another indicator of our progressive culture. I am thankful for the female volunteers because we would have far fewer boys in scouting without them.

 

However, it would be interesting to learn what the BSA would have looked like today had it not started accepting female leaders in troops. See, I personally cant remember if dads were more willing to volunteer back when I was a youth. It doesnt seem that different to me. I'm not saying men aren't different today, our culture has different expectations. But I just don't know if they aren't volunteering as much.

 

Barry

 

[Stosh]

Try being white, senior, male in today's society and see where it gets you.

 

30 years of scouting experience and no troop and no one's beating down my door.

 

Have I slowed down due to my older age? Heck no, I do more today than I did when I was 18 and unfortunately now I do it only for myself and wife. We do more outdoor activities than any troop on this forum.

 

So where's the problem? Danged if I know, but I'm beginning to rather enjoy my early BSA retirement.

 

Every male has his own story, and BSA isn't asking any of them what it is. Could be that if they would, the role of males in BSA may return.

 

Stosh

[jonathanrbaker]

Our pack is very lucky to have a lot of strong male leaders. On our roster, we have 10 male leaders and only two women, who both serve on the committee. In our pack, the women view Scouting as a "boy thng." We are in a decent-sized city, so I have met the other packs that seem to be run by nothing but women, and they are the ones that are constantly struggling to keep their unit afloat. It is not their fault, but even they would tell you that they would kill for some male help.