Whittlin Chip carry over to Boy Scouts?

[Scoutfish]

Okay, I know this is probably ( most likely ? ) a stupid question, but I gotta ask.

 

If my son earned his whittlin chip as a cub scout, can he carry a pocket knife as a boy scout?

 

No, not talking about it being the same as a Tot'n Chip, but just for a pocket knife only.

 

Today, we went to the military surrplus store where he bought a cargo ruck sach ( big awesome backpack) . It has A BUNCH of cool pockets and storage places. On the left shoulder strap, it has a knife/ flashlight pocket and he asked me what would go there. So I told him, either a flashlight or knife.

 

It was at that point I thought: "Well no, he can't carry a pocket knife til he gets his Tot'n Chip.

 

But then I wondered, why is it we can give ( after he proves himself) a Cub Scout a whittling chip that allows him to carry a pocket knife, but when the boy is older and "suppossedly" more mature, we wouldn't trust him to use that same knife?

 

Then I wondered why there isn't a boy scout version of a whittlin Chip. Meaning just for using the pocket knife mind you, and not for the hatchet or saw.

 

Or do they even have to have a tot'n chip for just a pocket knife only - without a saw or hatchet?

 

 

So, lay it on me.

 

 

[shortridge]

Nope, it doesn't carry over. Totin Chip is separate, and you can't earn it in pieces.

 

That said, I doubt anyone's going to stop your son from bringing a knife along in a trip at which he asks to learn about proper woods tools use.

 

It doesn't take long to learn or teach the basics. But it will take plenty of practice to become good.

[BluejacketScouter]

Interesting question.

 

The Totin' Chip is only a pledge to use knives (and woods tools) safely.

 

Nowhere is it stated in the current handbook or requirements as mandatory to carry a knife. Unless the Troop votes against it, or they have it in their silly bylaws or some such (I'm betting not, but who knows nowadays).

 

However, do think of the implications when all the boys suddenly clamor to carry knives...

 

For me personally, I'd put Totin' Chip in the "tradition" category - should be done - like taking off your hat before entering the dining hall, for example. Maybe a weak example but you catch the drift?

 

Unspoken coming-of-age protocol, maybe?

 

 

(This message has been edited by BluejacketScouter)

[SSScout]

 

In my since retired from job, (transit street supervisory person), I carried alot of gear around with me, both on my person and in my Jeep Cherokee. I found lots of use for my pocket knife(s).

I teach Woods Tools at IOLS.

I taught Scoutson about knives and axes and saws. He became the Troop Guide/Instructor for such.

 

Last night, we held the last CoH for the year. In setting up the candelabra for the ceremony, the Scouts were trying to wedge the candles into the holes. I suggested carving off a little with your knife. NOT ONE OF THE 28 SCOUTS PRESENT HAD A POCKET BLADE ON THEM. And more than 3/4 were T/C holders.

Even the senior Scouts present realized the irony of this.

I loaned them mine.

 

Yep, W/C holders should re-prove their skill, easily, and gain new skills by earning T/C.

[shortridge]

When you can't carry at school or on the job, it loses its second-nature status.

[Basementdweller]

While not required......

 

Don't show up to resident camp...with out it.....Camp director will confiscate your knife unless you have the card on you......

 

It is noted in the guide book....

[shortridge]

Not every summer camp, Basement.

[Eagle92]

Agree with Short, when you can't carry to work, or in the case of the Scouts to school, it loses second nature.

 

I had one of my coworkers a little upset with me 'cause I didn't have a pocket knife on me as I keep two in the car.

 

BUT there are cases where scouts have been suspended and/or expelled for having wood tools secured in their cars.

[Stosh]

My "tradition" was every boy had to take Totin' Chit training every year. I know there is no "rule" requiring annual recertification, but it was expected by me. No one ever questioned it. I didn't cut any corners off the Totin' Chits (as is the "tradition" for many). Instead, I tore up their card and told them to take the class again. Obviously they hadn't learned enough in the previous class.

 

With that being said, any new scout coming in from Cubs that had a Whittlin' Chit was allowed to carry a pocket knife until the first class for Totin' Chit rolled around, usually at summer camp. After that they could handle all woods tools that were covered in the class.

 

It was expected of the acting SPL to work with the summer camp staff to have an evening of Totin' Chit training and CPR training for the troop. Boys that didn't go to summer camp were expected to get the training on their own if they wished to carry a knife and/or use camp tools.

 

We had only three rules in our troop that could not be broken under any circumstance. The first rule was always, "Safety First!" Totin' Chits fell under this rule. The Totin' Chit and CPR were never mandatory, but if one wished to carry a knife, they needed a current card.

 

Stosh

 

Oh, by the way, the swim test was also part of this process, but no classes were organized by the SPL, he would march them all down to the waterfront at orientation and get that test knocked out. Any boy that didn't have that certification at summer camp was treated as a non-swimmer at all water activities. The SPL and TG would hold a swim test during the winter, just after the new boys came into the program and they could pass the swim test for a year. However, 6 months later it was expected that they take the test again at summer camp. Too much training/education is not a bad thing!(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[qwazse]

I figure the rules are based on the trouble a particular group of boys have gotten into. If a troop has spent the past year bandaging cut thumbs, etc ...they'll do something to get everyone on the same page. Theat my mean restricting knife use until trained. Even then a boy may be allowed to carry his knife, just not use it until he gets his card.

If the tro hasn't had problems (probably because the go over safety often), then they might not even bother with the cards.

[Basementdweller]

I should have said the camp that we attend....Yes I understand that it isn't like that everywhere.....

 

But ever camp I have been to forbids fixed blade knives.....

[BadenP]

 

 

So lets dumb down the boy scout program even more by carrrying a cub award into boy scouts. Scoutfish the answer is quite simple, a boy scout should already be fully trained on the proper use of a knife and axe by the time he receives his Tenderfoot rank, there is no need for a card as his rank should be the symbol. Look, I know all to well that too many troops these days have severely curtailed outdoor experiences for their boys and so many of them are babes in the woods, where the only thing they have mastered is their I-pad. But a Whittlin Chip card, lets get real here. You know how many 14yo 1st Class scouts our crew has knocking down our door begging us to join because of our extensive outdoor program, way too many.

 

We have troops here in serious trouble because a number of SM's don't see the need to do much in the way of outdoor experiences, and their troops are shrinking in size each year. What do they see as the reason, they blame sports, technology, and girls, what a load of bull. The truth is, as I stated in another thread, in my council there are too many SM's who dislike camping and the outdoors because they are so out of shape and lazy. Our SE is finally going take some action and get some changes made before his council loses over 50% of its troops.

 

But what you propose Scoutfish would be a major step backwards for boy scouts if nothing else.

[Scoutfish]

Baden,

 

I didn't propose anything...so I'm not sure where anything would be a step backwards.

 

But here is the reality:

 

My son earned his whittlin chip a good while back.

 

He uses his knife around the house constantly. He carves, he whittles, he sharopens his pencils with it. He actually has 4 different trypes of piocket knives that he handles very well

 

BUT.... According to Rules, he cannot use that knife until he gets his Tot'n Chip - wich also includes using a saw ( which he knows how to do) and a hatchet ( never had one, but knows how to use full size axe well).

 

SO, what we have here is pretty much akin to saying: You earned a drivers license to drive a car, and you are pretty experienced with it ....but until you get your tractor trailer license AND pilots license also...you aren't allowed to drive your car anymore.

 

See what I am saying?

 

Why is is it that - until her can earn the use of all three items, he cannot use the one item that he already showed prficeincy in?

 

And I am not proposing anything in boy scouts, but simply wondering why he couldn't show that he did earn the whittlin chip as a scout as to show he is not starting from scratch as a totally inexperienced knife user.

 

So why not say that Cub Scout Leader who is trained in CPR or SSA or SA, etc...is suddenly not trained anymore as soon as he becomes a Boy Scout leader?

 

(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Scoutfish]

"Scoutfish the answer is quite simple, a boy scout should already be fully trained on the proper use of a knife and axe by the time he receives his Tenderfoot rank, there is no need for a card as his rank should be the symbol."

 

I agree! being a Boy Scout of the Tenderfot rank should be qualification enough...but that's not how iot really works. Scout has to have the Tot'n Chip.

[Deaf Scouter]

Sorry but I think the card should be used. The four corners serve a purpose of being punishment if caught using knives and such incorrectly. Four corners cut means no more knives use by the scout until retrained again. Card MUST be worn at all time to be able to produce it when asked. (That is what ziploc snack bags and scout pockets are for)

 

Cub Scout and Boy Scouts coverage is different in this area of knife use. Its a simple thing to do the knife coverage in a Troop meeting or a campout to get the Boy Scout's level. Your son can be a trainer if he is so well at it. The Cub Scout level does not cover as indepth nor the same tools as the Boy Scout one does. Preach 'safety' instead of yet another thing that doesn't carry over complaint...*winka