If I were King of the BSA

[JMHawkins]

Just do to sports what we did to Scouting: Break the game down into individual "First Year Skills," and sign them off in a week of summer camp (with no re-testing).

 

These signed off skills (running, kicking, throwing, catching) will never actually be used in a game, but understood as isolated skills.

 

In the place of a game, skills are then "reviewed" while sitting indoors in a Coach Conference, followed by job interview practice called a Board of Review.

 

You forgot to assign the Team Mom to bring snacks and a juice box after the skills review.

 

But yeah, the Journeys would be a great idea. And if I had my way, Life would probably require completing a 50-miler, and Eagle would probably require leading one.

 

Talk about adding to the requirements...

[drmbear]

What I've noticed about the Cub Scout program in general is that the cycle of things that a CS pack does through the course of each year just doesn't change that much. There are community events we participate in each year, particular parades and activities. The Webelos, after doing that for each of the first three years just need to be exposed to some different things. Boy Scout troops aren't locked into a particular annual program, and have the flexibility over five years(for example) to vary the program extensively based on whatever the boys want to do. I just finished the first year of Webelos with my son and his den, and I made sure we did a lot of very different things. I also try to engage these guys differently even during the pack events(meetings), giving them responsibilities. We stopped having "den meetings," instead getting together in different locations, engaged in activities as much as possible rather than sitting around a table. It is not easy though, and for some it may be very difficult to make the shift from the way the Tiger/Wolf/Bear process works to actually make Webelos something far different.

[Eagle92]

"And if I had my way, Life would probably require completing a 50-miler, and Eagle would probably require leading one. "

 

 

Sea Scout Quartermaster requires something simlar

 

Quartermaster Cruise: Take command of a vessel with a crew of not less than four Sea Scouts for at least 40 consecutive hours, including two nights. You must delegate and supervise all duties. During the cruise complete the following: Inspect the vessel for required equipment; supervise all menu preparation; prepare the boat to get underway with a proper checklist approved by the adult leaders; anchor, dock, and maintain course by commands to the helmsman; remain underway for an extended period during darkness; and discuss appropriate nighttime running procedures. While underway, perform the following drills: man overboard, damage control, abandon ship, fire, collision, and any other drills used by your ship. During this cruise no substantial errors may be committed.

 

 

[RichardB]

Wow, I just stumbled on this thread, did not know my fate was at debate - is anyone keeping the count on keep him or fire him?

 

For the record, I would prefer to work my way out of the job - so when we figure out how to get to the point of a precision operation that is intrinsically safe, would gladly walk away.

 

Richard

 

PS: I'm still waiting to find out what the cub scout is doing with his radio flyer and homemade alcohol stove that is strategic to the success of that service project.

 

[RichardB]

Wow, I just stumbled on this thread, did not know my fate was at debate - is anyone keeping the count on keep him or fire him?

 

For the record, I would prefer to work my way out of the job - so when we figure out how to get to the point of a precision operation that is intrinsically safe, would gladly walk away.

 

Richard

 

PS: I'm still waiting to find out what the cub scout is doing with his radio flyer and homemade alcohol stove that is strategic to the success of that service project.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

The cub scout is trying to make a self-propelled transport vehicle; sadly he will move on to FIRST LEGO Robotics league instead of scouts. He will go on to start his own company "Flame-wagons", then corporation, then foundation. Then BSA will hit him up for a big donation for STEM Merit Badges.

 

Richard B., thanks for being a good sport. I am sure it is not easy. Why just this weekend I was a at a campfire as the other Scouters stated 3 reasons why I was not suited to be Scoutmaster. Whether they were true or not it is hard to hear.

[Kudu]

 

SeattlePioneer writes:

 

"We really do need more adventure as part of the program ... Are we letting too much junk get in the way of that, which seems to be the main point of Kudu's objections as I understand them? If so, what junk, and what should be disposed of? Kudu has a list."

 

Yes, Seattle, I do have a list.

 

I had intended to post it to this thread, one point at a time...

 

...but the whole point of Baden-Powell's Journey and Expedition requirements (followed ---in the BSA-- by Hillcourt's "Real" Patrols) is that they are (as you write) the best experience in Scouting ... when a Scout actually NEEDS to USE those Scout skills.

 

However, we hand out Eagle Scout badges to boys who have never walked into the woods with a pack on their backs.

 

In other words we want to make isolated running, kicking, throwing, and catching skills more meaningful, as we continue to hand out Heisman Trophies to boys who have never walked onto a 300 foot playing field with a jersey on their backs.

 

Restore B-P's Journey and Expedition requirements to every rank past Second Class (plus a Patrol Method based on 300 feet and Patrol Hikes without "Adult Association"), and my list of impracticable "junk to be disposed of" will be obvious to everyone.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[Papadaddy]

Richard, as safety and health professionals, we both know that "zero risk" is an unattainable goal.

[Eagle92]

RichardB,

 

Actually I saw Cubs with little red wagons Memorial Day Weekend using them to carry around US flags for a service project. Didn't have the heart to tell them that the BSA now bans them using little red carts for service projects.

 

Did tell the leaders and they thought I was joking. had to tell them to look it up as it was a new rule. They were not happy about the new rules.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Dashboard

 

 

Why how IT trendy of you.........It is what all the cube rats want.......Chai......I know what my achievements are, I don't want national to spend one red cent on leaders vanity....

 

 

I would simply settle for a usable recharter system and decent advancement system.

[DeanRx]

I for one applaud RichardB for his candor and the fact that he even listens / responds to posts on this board... perhaps if he could twist the arm(s) of more at the national level to do so, it would be a good thing overall for BSA.

 

That being said - G2SS needs a SERIOUS rework.

 

Some things make sense (no homemade stoves) - OK I don't like this, but I get that we can't have scouts blowing themselves up.

 

However, no "little red wagons"? How are the cubs supposed to deliver all that popcorn they sold? I'd rather they pull it down the sidewalk in their wagon, than the one scout I saw riding in the back of moms mini-van with the tailgate open, he'd grab the order and slide out the back as mom came to a stop, run the order up to the person's door, then hop back in the open rear-end as mom drove to the next house on the block! Pretty sure that shouldn't happen either - but its THEIR son and THEIR van, thus THEIR risk.

 

I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the pull cart issue is from a scout running themself or someone else over with a scout cart at a council campground or on some other campout while hauling equipment from the parking area? Thus the ban?

 

Well, to follow that logic - I hope a tree branch never falls on a scout while he is hauling his gear to the tentsite, or we will be faced with everyone wearing hard hats and camping only in areas with no overhanging trees or shade! Same logic applies to the decision made.

 

I know Richard probably has lawyers (or is a lawyer himself, or at least stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night) he has to work with and apease for his bosses.

 

Trouble is, a great deal of G2SS is a lot like the American with Disabilities act or the Homeland Sercurity Act. They are well intended a the time of their inception, but grow to be a costly hinderance that often times does very little to serve its stated purpose and does more to aggrivate and undermine the program it attempts to protect.

[JMHawkins]

Kudu

 

However, we hand out Eagle Scout badges to boys who have never walked into the woods with a pack on their backs.

 

I looked up the requirements for this award (National Outdoor Achievement Award):

 

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/content/award/national_outdoor_achievement-2112.asp

 

That trumps Eagle in my book. I get the impression a lot fewer of those are awarded too.

[JMHawkins]

I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the pull cart issue is from a scout running themself or someone else over with a scout cart at a council campground or on some other campout while hauling equipment from the parking area? Thus the ban?

 

Dean, one of my philosophical objections to how Richard is doing his job is that we don't know. He won't tell us what happened to prompt these changes. That means we don't have any details of how Scouts got injured (if they even did), and thus no ability to prevent future injuries of the same sort. Richard assumes the injuries will be prevented by his bans and prohibitions, but that assumes he actually identified the real problem that led to the injuries, and I'm pretty certain he did not. Of coure the other problem is we can't be sure about that because nobody will share the information that went into the decision making process.

 

From the original thread on the handcart/wheelbarrow ban, there was some comment - perhaps from Richard himself - about a scout falling off a trailer while using a hand truck. That seemed to be the justification for banning red wagons. Maybe I'm mistaken - but if I am Richard, why don't you lay out the actual facts. Tell us about the discussions that happened while reviewing the new guidelines, let us have the insights of the professional safety managers so we have more information to do our jobs.

 

If you really do want to work yourself out of a job Richard, the best way is to provide information to the people on the scene supervising the activities Scouts engage in. Fewer diktats, more information.

[BartHumphries]

Whoever RichardB is, he most likely doesn't work in a vacuum. Even if his is the only name on the document, for something like the Guide to Safe Scouting, there's most likely some sort of committee or quorum. From National's point of view, the relevant matters have likely already been discussed and debated ad nauseum, so there's little to no point in sharing what happened with the rest of us. What probably happened is that kids used the wagons to race in, which was considered a stupid thing to do when I was a Cub Scout back in the late 80's/early 90's (at least by the adults then, and me now, although back then I was all for the idea).

 

Personally, I think it would be a better idea to "share the details" and use bad examples as teaching tools than to wholesale ban activities. Sure, people do stupid things on hikes and have to be airlifted out, but we don't ban hikes. Sure, people break bones and get all sorts of injuries skateboarding, but that's still allowed. I can't tell you how many papercuts I've had in my life, but Scouts still get to handle paperwork (mostly). When a nearby Scout troop had a bad hike and had to be airlifted out, I saved the newspaper article so that I could show it off as a cautionary "don't end up like this" story. The more you know what not to do during an activity, the more you can plan to make your activity safer.

 

Anyway, it seems to me that wagons, dollies (the kind you move things with, not the stuffed kind), handcarts, etc., are still just fine and dandy in Scouting. I'm not seeing where those little red wagons are banned. The word "wagon" doesn't appear in the GTSS, and "cart" only appears in reference to motorized go-carts. The word "red" only appears in "American Red Cross" and when they're talking about Lyme disease, "A red ringlike rash might appear around the bite." The word "hand" appears only in what might be in a comprehensive first aid kit, "A small bar of soap, or a travel-size bottle of alcohol-based hand sanitizing gel". The word "dolly" isn't in there as the text "dol" doesn't even appear. The word "truck" only appears in relation to trucks -- interesting note, apparently hayrides are still ok as long as legs don't hang over the edge. The online "print only" guide (which seems pointless to me, I'm absolutely not going to load 20 different webpages and Ctrl+F multiple words on all of them when I can just download a single document to search around in) does, however say that ATV's are absolutely banned, when I know that they've been approved for use at some Council-run summer camps, so it could easily be outdated.

 

In looking at what changed in January 2012, with the comments that some people have made, I'm rather surprised that nobody has bemoaned tethered hot air balloons being removed from the list of allowed activities.