Helping a scout tie his own shoe

[Eagledad]

Hi all, we just got back from a wonderful family vacation. All our kids are grown so these trips are more about family rebonding than the fun vacation activities. Like scouts, the activities are just an excuse to be together.

 

I guess because I no longer have little ones to hold hands with in the crowds or to hold and lay their head on my shoulder when they get tired, I enjoy watching other young families on their vacations. Something about the sparkle in the eyes of a child when they are about to experience the next ride at the amusement park. Something about the excitement of parents watching their children laugh.

 

There was one family with two toddlers asleep on the bus ride to their hotel. They clearly had a great day, but all the excitement had caught up and now it was the struggle to get everyone home and bed. Between the two folded strollers, the bags of souvenirs and sleeping children, they didn't have enough hands to manage a quick exit off the bus. So when the bus stopped at their stop, I grabbed a stroller without saying anything and help them off the bus. Dad gave me a clear gaze of why and thank you at the same time. I responded "been there and done that" as I got back on the bus. I turned to looked out the window as the bus was driving away and saw both mom and dad waving at me in thanks. That was very nice.

 

Anyway, the next day we were walking through another amusement park when I saw a park employee point to the shoe of a Webelos age boy. The whole family looked down where the employee was pointing an saw his untied shoe. The immediate response was not the webeloes age boy stopping to bend down and tie his shoe, it was mom letting go of the toddler sister to bend down and tie little Bobby's shoe for him. My first thought was little Bobby is ready for a troop so we can wean him off his mom.

 

That's what we do, we teach eleven year old boys how to stop and tie their own shoe. We teach a simple independence that prepares them to be responsible adults. It's not that mom is being a bad parent, she is just on the inside unable to see the big picture. She is a mom and tying shoes is what moms do. It's the boy who needs to show mom he is becoming a man and needs some room.

 

Its kind of funny how summer camp discussions of home sickness on forums are generally focus on the scout. But I learned from being a scout leader and parent that the parents are suffering from home sickness as much as their son. In fact, it's usually the parents who cause much of the problem by telling little Bobby how much they will miss him, how much little sister will miss him, how his friends will miss him, and even how much Rover will miss him. We eventually started working with the parents a few weeks before camp to instead talk to their on about his adventures and fun he was going to have. We started preparing mom and dad for their home sickness so that they all could enjoy his time away at camp. Once they understood it was something the whole family suffered and not just their son, they knew how to del with summer camp preperation better a we had a lot less home sickness problems.

 

A scouts first summer camp is his most important because that for most scouts is there first real separation from the mom and dad link. Summer camp is their first real experience in independence and first real experience of independent growth. It's healthy and it's at the right time in the boys life. I explain this to the parents so they understand and hopefully encourage for their son to have the experience. And for themselves to start getting used to their son growing toward being a man a little step at a time.

 

So that's why we are here. Scouting was started so that we help all the little Bobby's learn to stop and tie his own shoe before mom's instinct does it for him. Little Bobby has a long way to go before he leaves mom and dad for his own life, but we can help the family prepare for that day by the little things he does in scouting. And maybe the difference we make from our time that we give is that little Bobby will stop and tie little sisters shoe just to makes moms day a little bit easier.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[eagle90]

Well said, Barry.

 

Dale

[desertrat77]

Kudos, Barry.

 

Here's the thought process of many over protective/heloparents:

 

"But he's only 2"

"But he's only 4"

"But he's only 8"

Etc.

 

Some day he'll be "only 18"...and is he ready for life?

 

Scouting will definitely help him.

[Ltfightr]

Hum.... my son is a Web 2. I tie his shoes for him a lot. He has a disability that causes weak hand control sometimes. You wouldn't know it by looking at him but sometimes after a long hard day to a park he just doesn't have the ability to tie his shoe well enough for it to stayed tie more than 2 minutes. It's nice to know that instead of thinking of WHY mom is tying the shoe, you jump to the conclusion of "mom is babying him and he needs to get out from in under her wing".

 

FYI: my son has completed 25 miles on his 100 mile hiking patch. Without me. Or his Dad. Just the troop. Don't jump to conclusions or judge what you don't know.

[AlamanceScouter]

I might be wrong but I think Barry was using that analogy to represent the hundreds of boys he has worked with over the years. That is how I took it anyway. As a cub leader for 3 years now.....and having taken a group of Webelos to Resident Camp last summer it is great to see how much the boys grow in maturity when we let them explore.

[Ltfightr]

True.....and sorry about that. This is a sore subject for me sometimes.

[Eagle732]

 

So, when your unit goes to summer camp do you allow parents to attend or is it only SM and ASMs?

How about committee members, can they attend?

Where do you draw the line?

 

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, I think it is safe to say that when we use examples, they are either specific in which case we do know a scout quite well, or they are a general statement that is indeed subject to all kinds of exceptions.

 

At our last troop campout, the SM did something I never heard of before: THorns& Roses & rosebuds.

 

In case you never herd of it( I didn't) , it goes like this:

 

THORN: Each person in the group or circle, tells one thing that is a pain in his side about the trip/campout/event. No judging by us, no names, not catcallingetc...Each person airs out their thorn. Could be the weather, what was for dinner, the activity, etc....

 

ROSE: Each person tells one thing they really liked about that day/ trip/campout/ etc...

 

After that

 

ROSEBUD: Something you are looking foreward to.

 

A couple scouts admitted that they were looking forward to going home so thay could be babied and pampered by their mothers.

 

So, alot of scouts are indeed able to do forthemselves, but why bother when mom will do it when she's around?

 

WE have another scout who is in the NSP who is like night and day depending on wether his dad is around or not.

 

If dad ( committee member) isn't on the trip he will eat just about anything his patrol makes. But let ole daddio come along, and this scout can't eat anything but chicken nuggets or hot dogs prepared an exact specific way. Has to be just the right brand too or else the scout will just not eat.

 

Personally, I say let him not eat. He gets hungy enough, he will eat sometyhing!

 

So, even though there are exceptions, I have seen in my experience that usually, the parents - particularly moms - enable the scouts to a level of dependancy that they would not show or have otherwise when mom & dad are not there.

 

Luckily for me, my son learned that I do not play the enabler game at all. But while his mom does, she has in fact come a long ways. She isn't as bad as she used to be.

 

Still working on her though!

[Beavah]

Yah, I've heard tell of some 11-year-old first year scouts who quite literally didn't know how to tie their own shoes, eh? And not lads who were strugglin' with a physical disability.

 

I reckon Eagledad was talkin' about one of those in a general sort of way, not tryin' to be judgmental of anyone's individual circumstances. Even then, though, Ltfightr, yeh have to start thinkin' about what's your son goin' to do without you? At school? At sports? He needs to learn some techniques or tools to cope on his own, even if it's just becomin' comfortable with askin' for help from a stranger.

 

Beavah

 

[IM_Kathy]

great story... sounds like a great time... and good analogys

 

as to the shoes - I didn't tie my kids shoes once they got into school. but that being said my son has TERRIBLE fine motor skills and so I told the adults with him on his philmont crew that if they didn't want him to stop every 1/2 mile to tie or listen to him dealing with blisters because he didn't tie his boots tight that they might want to give him a hand. From their response after he did pretty good - always tied himself first and then they would just double check the first couple of days. No issues with blisters, and no stopping constantly to re-tie.

[CricketEagle]

Like "Ltfightr",

 

I also have a son with fine motor skill problems, tying those small shoe strings is a real issue. He does it himself, but it is painful to watch. Knots with big rope are fine. It effects his speach and entire learning style. I recently had a scout leader berate him for his very poor hand writing. Not good, not good at all. Not very scout like from an adult. I am firm with him on that subject as he has to learn a way around his problems. I am not sure the scout leader even caught on that that he was dealing with a boy with a mild disability.

 

But I can absolute say that he is one of the first to have his tent up, pack his pack and start doing the scout things.

[Beavah]

I am not sure the scout leader even caught on that that he was dealing with a boy with a mild disability.

 

Yah, not to put to fine a point on it, Cricket, but why in the blazes didn't yeh tell the poor man?

 

Scout leaders are fine people, but they can't always read minds. If they know in advance that a lad has a physical or emotional issue, then they can ask questions, think about approaches, and put in place the kinds of things that the boy will need for support. Half way across the lake is not the time to find out that a lad has a seizure disorder and that's why yeh suddenly have a real-life lifesaving scenario when yeh were expecting only a nice paddle trip.

 

B

 

[Tampa Turtle]

My son also has fine motor problems and this has been a major issue for him until age 13. Had Occupational Therapy for it and we refused to get him velcro shoes. But he needed help sometimes. Yet he was great with rope--maybe a knot savant--one of best in Troop. Go figure.

[Eagledad]

>>So, when your unit goes to summer camp do you allow parents to attend or is it only SM and ASMs?

How about committee members, can they attend?

Where do you draw the line?

[dennis99ss]

Lets see. amusement park. families, strollers on a bus to the hotel. different park the next day........Hope you enjoyed Disney!!!!