Discipline Action

[throoppitbull]

Our Troop has a Scout who has never been very Scout Like! He has had numerous verbal warnings and his parents have also been giving a verbal warnings about his behavior. This past weekend at a campout he physically, once again, tried to go after another scout. The discussion have been made by myself, Committee Chair, and the Scoutmaster that a letter needs to be sent home and that in order for this scout to continue participating in our Troop that a parent must accompany him till the Troop feels his is able to conduct himself in a Scout like manner. j

This is the first time our troop has had to deal with this type of situation and I am wondering if anyone has a template letter for this that I may be able to adapt to our situation.

Thanks any help is appreciated!!

[frankpalazzi]

Welcome to the forums! I think a meeting should be held with the SM,CC, Scout and parents to outline the problems and try to come up with a solution. Face to Face with the parents is much more effective than a letter sent home. Of course if the decision has already been made to have the parent accompany the scout, the parents should be handed a brief letter at the meeting stating the terms. This should definitely be done in person, not by mail in my opinion. I don't have a "form letter" for this kind of situation, but perhaps someone else might?

 

What is your role in this? Are you an ASM, Committee member? SPL?

 

(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

[kbandit]

If you (troop) writes a letter please have someone other than the author of the letter read if before it is sent to make sure it conveys the message the troop/committee wants to send. Please spell out exactly what you (troop) want to see with regards to parent supervision. The parent could come and not give a care in the world what their son is doing. Spell out what the next step will be if the parent accompanying the scout does not work. Sometimes it is better to lose a bad apple than the whole basket.

 

Every scout should feel safe with their troop.

 

Template letter - Every situation is different.

[Eagle732]

There's another thread that describes scouts damaging patrol equipment. I consider that a "minor" infraction. I'm comfortable letting our SPL handle something like that.

 

What you're describing is what I would consider a "major" infraction, repeated physical altercations. Our troop policy is that repeated "major" infractions go to the committee for review and discipline if needed.

 

I (the SM) would sit down with the scout, SPL and PL and make it very clear that the next time he raises a hand towards another person he will be removed from the unit. Simple, straight forward, end of story. If it happened again he would be visiting the troop committee for his walking papers.

 

I've been a unit leader for 10 years both as a CM and a SM. I have had situations like this before. I have waisted time with special meetings, letters, and endless discussions. What I have found is that they are generally a waist of time. At the troop level a simple directive from the SM is all that is needed. The SPL and PL are brought in to make sure everyone is on the same page and everyone knows this is the scout's last warning.

 

I have removed 1 scout for this in 10 years. He told me that he didn't want to be in Scouting but his mother was making him stay. Fighting was a way for him to get out of Scouting. His mom put him in another troop with the same results.

 

Now there's going to be some here that will say my approach is all wrong. This is the way I run my unit and I have full support from the CO. Your unit leader needs to figure out how they want to handle these problems, get everyone on board (COR, CC) and take care of these situations. If you don't and it gets too bad the other scouts will leave your unit.

[Eagledad]

We handled this by requiring a parent to attend the meetings and campouts with their son. It solves the problem one way or another every time.

 

Barry

[Eagledad]

I should add to forget letters, handle all serious matters with parents in person.

 

Barry

[qwazse]

We have some bad kids in our troop.

One has had a parent come with him on nearly every activity. The boy is slowly growing out of his aggression, but it's a rough climb. Anyway he gets that we won't put up with his behavior because we told him "We don't put up with your behavior." He's at the point where he can usually time himself out preventatively.

Another has had to be threatened to be sent home.

 

If you've given warnings, suspend him. Tell him he'll be welcome back with a parent. If you get a chance to talk to the parent, explain that their boy unfortunately needs more supervision, and they are probably the best folks to to fill that role.

[Tampa Turtle]

We had one boy who had ADHD meds and when he was coming on the down cycle he would have anger issues. His dad was very private so we had no idea-I just thought he was bad. Now we know his med management and timing is pretty important so we use a "sliding scale" and work with him. Now he is a bit older and will at least give us a verbal warning i.e. "It has been 12 hours, my meds are wearing off, and I am getting angry!" and we know to put him aside or keep him out of known conflicts. He is learning to manage his condition and we are all adapting.

 

Yes it is a pain but I am sure he doesn't like to live like that.

 

What I learned was that some boys aren't bad but that their behaviors are a symptom of another problem. They work with us we will work with them.

[John-in-KC]

Read what Barry (eagledad) wrote!

 

Do it!

 

No more need be said.

[Stosh]

There are times when we get a heads up warning about certain scouts that, more often than not, we either ignore or develop inappropriate pre-conceived ideas (self-fulfilling prophesy syndrome) about them.

 

Now every kid reacts differently and each one must be addressed in a way they can understand.

 

Having worked with kids for 40+ years now, I found that many times a little outside the box thinking goes a long way. My ex-wife said I never grew up, and that might be a good thing when it comes to working with kids, too.

 

I had a WDL say to me (ASM) of the troop he was crossing over his kids to and identified one boy as a particular cut up. He had been "a handful" and that reputation was passed on by each succeeding DL. Well on the first day in the troop, the boys sat down for some orientation lecture, (Yeah, right, like the first time I heard it it was boring and didn't get any better each year either). Well I sat down next to this boy and simply said, "Hi, how's it going?" I got the usual grunt in response. I sat there with my arms crossed and eyes forward. Usually an adult sitting next to the "problem" kid was normal and the kid was no dummy. He eventually said, "I suppose you're the one who's supposed to keep an eye on me." I said, "Naw, I just gotta sit through this boring lecture just like you do." He sat quietly for the rest of the time. At the end, I leaned over and asked him if he was as bored as I was? He smiled, got up and walked away. Then he came back, and announced, "Mr. S, I like you, I'm gonna behave for you." He never gave a problem for the whole time he was in scouts.

 

I remember soon after that one of the other leaders and he had a run-in. I sought him out and said, "I noticed you and Mr. P have a little tiff going on. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't bug him. He's got high blood pressure and if he has a heart attack because of you, then he'll go off to the hospital and die, and I gotta go tell his widow how sorry I am, I gotta go buy some flowers, take a evening off to go the funeral home, then take time off from work to go to the funeral, and then sign the visitor's book, and then there's a huge long process of finding a new scout leader and that's really boring, and the council.... and etc. and etc. and etc.

 

I kept that up becoming more and more ridiculous until he smiled and said he wouldn't bug Mr. P either.

 

He turned out to be a good kid and after only a couple of times he kinda bent the rules a bit, things went smoothly.

 

There are a lot of discipline issues that can be avoided if one takes the time to lay the best ground work before hand. This is not slapping a set of behavior rules down in front of them to sign and counter signed by parents and SM, and everything is then okay until the kid screws up and you can kick him out.

 

Heck, I wouldn't join a group like that, why would any kid?

 

The ground work I'm talking about is getting to know the kid. Find out why he does the things he does. Why does he act up, problems at school? Home? Friends? Then mentor him, suggest things for him, but don't mandate and lay down the law.

 

Either I have been VERY lucky over my lifetime or the kids that I worked with such as church youth groups, scouts of all ages, Cubs through Venturing, youth at risk, youth defined by the courts as juvenile delinquents, and institutionalized youth and I have had very few problems and most of them minor.

 

Stosh

[dennis99ss]

I have sent you a private message.

 

But, in our situation, we had some physical altercations, that seemed to stem from non-scouting interactions. The issues arrose over years at school, and simply appeared at scout events. I met with the boys individually. I met with the parents individually. I had the parents come together and I played mediator. I had the boys come together and talk things out. It went on for weeks, but I think it was the right way to handle it.

 

We then had some minor things go on, but nothing major. Until the campout from hell. I had to leave early because of some work committments. We then evolved (new word for any time things go opposite now in my vocabulary) into a group of boys who decided they would just go wild. There was some physical things, there was ignoring leaders, there was ignoring adults, and other things. I saw it as a "viral" situation. One things goes south, and then another goes further, and another, etc.

 

I sent the letter to the parents, that is basically cut and pasted on the private message. I then met with the boys and had the spl, and some of our eagles assist, and used the incidents as a learning moment. Question and answer, etc. I had them answer that they wanted the environment that is appropriate, and they came up with the same rules as I had told the parents. I turned it from a single scout issue into a troop issue, where the troop has responsibility to address the situations as well as the scout himself.

 

Not exactly your situation, but maybe it will help.

[John-in-KC]

Scout Spirit is living the Scout Oath and Law in a young man's daily life.

 

If a Scout is a discipline problem, he needs lots of Adult Association, working on instilling the Oath and the Law. It might even be worth a friendly cup of coffee between Mr SM and the principal of the kids' school...

[Tampa Turtle]

I understand, from this and the other thread, that YPT requires only adults to "administer" discipline but really think that a consensus of the boys on rules and consequences really works. I am constantly surprised at how thoughtful and reasonable the boys ideas are compared with the adults. Here is what I heard just this week:

 

(On electronics during meetings)During Patrol competitions some boys just play on their phones instead of joining in--the Patrols just get whomever doesn't have one. We should have a box for all the phones kept by the SPL. When the activity time is over they get them back. If it is a real emergency they can go get theirs. This will cut down on guys playing on the phone and talking.

 

I think the adults would have come down on a "electronics ban".

 

(On taking Patrol gear out of another patrol box)If a patrol takes another Patrol's gear (without permission)they have to go without that item for the next two campouts to see what it is like.

 

(On taking another Patrol's food without asking) The offender has to wash ALL the other patrol's dishes for 3 meals.

[boomerscout]

no letter; nothing in writing. In this lawsuit happy nation a lawyer can parse any letter twelve ways from sunday in order to initiate a lawsuit.

You and one other need to visit the parents and have a face-to-face chit-chat.

[boomerscout]

Letters nowadays are just more junk mail. That you actually took the time to call in person will have more meaning