Discipline Adults or Boys

[Stosh]

SPL needs to discuss this problem with the PL of the patrol that the offender is a member. The PL is responsible for the welfare and disposition of his patrol members. If he is unable to properly lead his boys, it's an issue that needs to be brought up in his (PL's) BOR when POS is discussed. No discipline is necessary. People are more important than things. The SPL, PL of the patrol of the offending scout and offending scout need to come to a consensus on how this situation originated and then how this is to be resolved. The harmed patrol is not to be part of the process other than to state that the situation has been satisfactorily resolved.

 

I don't see why it is always necessary to jump to disciplinary measures before all the facts and issues are brought to light. Does one want to discipline a bullied scout who took retaliation on a bullying patrol? Obviously this post has bypassed investigation, trial, jury and gone right to execution of discipline, and who's job it is to do it. That's unfortunate. I find a lot of times that when one peels back all the layers of he said/she said, there's always an underlying motivation to the problem that isn't always apparent in the first place.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn]

Here we go again!

Discipline? That word again.

I kinda like what Barry posted:

" I would then ask scouts how such an action fits in the Scout Oath and Law? I wouldnt give the scouts time to answer, but would follow with another question that if a boy is willing to do this against his brother scouts, who else and what else is he willing to do to other people outside that troop? Then I would ask if anyone wanted to volunteer to help me clean up the box to please talk to the SPL."

But I'm unsure if it really fits the heading "Discipline"? As a Lad who wasn't guilty of anything might volunteer.

Discipline is so often just another word for punish or punishment.

Trying to get punishment right is really hard and most times never really works.

Not that long ago back in England anyone caught stealing anything worth more than five shillings, about 14 cents could be hanged.

Thieves in some places can have a hand chopped off.

I spent a fair amount of my youth wasting time writing out lines, "I will not talk in class, I will not talk in class, I will not talk in class" - You get the idea.

By the time my son hit the planet Time Out was in. He did something that upset his Mother,he sat in time out. He got caught with a knife at school he was suspended for three days.

Young offenders get sentenced to community service. Even convicted felons in the area where I live can be seen picking up litter along the side of the highways on weekdays on weekend you see Boy Scouts doing it.

I work in a correctional facility. Just about all the guys who get out say that they are never coming back. But I'm at the stage where I'm no longer surprised when I see familiar faces. Seems to me that something didn't work?

Punishment? Discipline? Is really hard.

I have yet to see in any BSA publication where it is the role or the responsibility of any youth member to discipline or punish another youth member.

When you use the word punish in place of discipline it really does seem more and more like a not so good idea.

I think if I were the SM and found out who the guilty party was, I'd ask him or them what they thought they needed to do to put things right?

Eamonn

[Eagle732]

Any discipline our SPL or PLs hand out is usually something like extra KP for the next camping trip, or clean the bathroom at the meeting hall.

We had a couple of boys get into a fight during the last camping trip. SPL had them come with their parents to the meeting hall to fold tents after they were dry. No big deal, it gave both the boys an opportunity to work together.

 

Then I usually follow up with a friendly talk.

[CalicoPenn]

"During a meeting an unknown boy sneaks into the hut and defaces another Patrol's Patrol Box."

 

There's one word that just keeps popping out at me - UNKNOWN. Who are you going to discipline if the boy is unknown, everyone? Why would the boys who weren't involved decide to trust you ever again if you have blind discipline? In fact, why have you assumed it is someone from another patrol and not someone from that patrol (maybe a Scout is mad at his PL/Patrol mates and this is how he's lashing out)?

 

Eagledad's Scouting Minute is exactly the way to handle this - though I might add that if someone wants to admit to this, to see me (not the SPL - this is something that deserves a quiet SM conference - if only because this might just as well be a cry for help as it is a simple prank).

 

[Peregrinator]

Not that long ago back in England anyone caught stealing anything worth more than five shillings, about 14 cents could be hanged.

 

Each shilling was 20 pence, and there were 12 shillings to a pound sterling, meaning each shilling was worth an ounce of silver. An ounce of silver is currently trading at $28.23 so five shillings in today's money would be $141.15. Not that I advocate the death penalty for theft but let's put things in perspective.... ;-)

[Mountaineer]

Well I would not ignore this, I would also caution against having a knee jerk reaction. It sounds to me like more of an over the line prank than willfully trying to hurt someone. Too often we adults make the punishment worse than the crime itself.

 

Rather than trying to single out individuals, I would take the approach that everyone present outside the patrol should fix it. That will likely remedy the problem and with the grumbling of the not guilty; the offenders will learn its not cool to cross the line with pranks.

 

[Tampa Turtle]

As usual Scouting has interesting group dynamics.

 

Of course the "who did it?" angle. A couple of the usual suspects were absent that night--good for them! A few fingers point to a couple newbies.

 

The Scouters's are frustrated but consider it a misdemeanor requiring a lecture, restitution, and an apology.

 

The non-scouter Dad's seem to think a suspension is in order.

 

The Mom's seem to be very angry and saying it is bullying and the boys should get kicked out of the Troop.

 

Most of the boys do not about it (yet) and will hear about it tonight. I expect some talk of retaliation from the offended patrol. They are a pretty mellow group but really stick together. I am pretty sure by the end of the night the scouting grapevine will have some suspects--right or wrong.

 

It is shame that this is hitting in the middle of a very busy program including SPL elections.

[Eagledad]

>>The Mom's seem to be very angry and saying it is bullying and the boys should get kicked out of the Troop.

[Stosh]

Is the message: "We've got the hangman's noose, now the only thing we need is the culprit!"?

 

There is discipline involved in the SPL and PL's sitting down and beginning an investigation into who and why. Too often we simply jump to the last page of the book and focus on the ending. Who isn't even as important as why. "Hey PL, did any of your boys tick off someone who would want to do this?" Eventually you will get to who, but you will also know why.

 

It's important that the boys learn the process, not just the consequences.

 

"If we catch you doing this, you're outta scouts, PERIOD!" Okay, the game's afoot. Just don't get caught. Duh! Even if you do get caught, they're not going to fess up! Anyone here not know how a 12-13 year old thinks?

 

If we are teaching citizenship to our boys, let's keep with the prescribed process and not change the rules in the middle of the stream.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn]

Peregrinator

Much as I hate to be contrary.

You are wrong!

Back in the day there were twelve pennons to a shilling and 20 shillings to a pound.

While at one time the penny was indeed silver. -Back in 1344!

1544, a silver coinage was issued containing just one third silver and two thirds copper. It has gone down and down!

The 'Bloody Code' Ran in England from the late 17th century to the early 19th century.

Five Shillings is twenty-five pence in todays decimal currency.

At todays exchange rate it would be about 40 cents (I was wrong)

It's kinda hard to say what five shillings might be worth today?

My best guess is about $60 -$75.

Ea.

[Tampa Turtle]

Shilling exchange rate aside. I know "the newbie draft" is almost here; maybe a boy said he wanted to join that Patrol and was told "no way". Perhaps just a thoughtless thing that boys do. Perhaps. I am trying to keep an open mind.

[Tampa Turtle]

UPDATE

 

Scouts only meeting held last night--no parents. SM and SPL had a talk about the scout law and asked if anybody knew anything. Nobody cracked--though it was pretty clear there was plenty of people in the area at the time. So everyone (except the targeted Patrol and boys who were absent previous week)had a sanding party. Box fixed.

 

Overheard some discussion by boys at how some selfish action by a few caused a lot to suffer and it is best to be hand off other peoples stuff.

 

I think there was a general consensus that is one boy who probably did it and had some animosity toward the patrol.

 

Boys seemed satisfied.

[Eamonn]

As my dear sainted Irish Grandmother might have said:

Arh-shr Saint Peter himself would be smiling.

Ea.