Cub Leaders Journey

[Basementdweller]

In reading all these posts about difficult adult transitions to boy scouting from Cubbing...It is no wonder.

 

 

As a fresh Tiger parent your required to be with your scout, attending go see its, pack meetings, family campouts.....Many find it a lot of fun.....Most will make and race pinewood cars in the sibs adult race.....

 

The Wolf year Pack may extend an invitation to become more involved, maybe as an Assistant Cub Master, Activities chair.... This point they may participate in the Pack meetings putting on adult skits, dressing in costumes, helping with props and awards...

 

Bear year the parent has it all figured out.....Den meetings, outings, family camping, fundraising.....Some start to become less involved with their scout.....the ones that are in the Pack leadership are just getting wound up......This is the year of the nuclear arms race for advancement, who can earn the most belt loops and arrow points.

 

I am having a blast, dancing around on stage in a pink tights, cow costume or as a monkey....I even got to be Santa Claus....All the boys love me.......

 

Webelos these two years are transition.....I am disappointed that the boys aren't bringing home crafts every week....the field trips are not to the police or fire station any longer, but construction sites, engineering firms, Auto mechanics shops, boy scout troops.....Scouting is becoming less fun and more like work.

 

Second year of webelos.....Camping with the troop, I have to go with my scout, but there are no siblings permitted to attend.....Troops to visit.. Boy scouts running around crazy at the last troop, rude arrogant Boy scout leaders, Loud mouth boys bossing the other boys around.

 

Son Picked a troop and crossed over into it....He is attending and enjoying it.....But I am lost..... I go from planning and accomplishing everything to being a spectator at worst and a driver at best.....I want to participate but the SM says to slow down, let the boys run the show. The first campout was a disaster, my son couldn't get his tent up, I went to help and the SM told me to go sit down.....My son burnt the pancakes and it took 3 hours to make and clean up breakfast.....camping isn't fun any more....

 

Looking at my sons book, tenderfoot.....wow he has done all this so I sign it off, son is proud he has earned the rank already and he has been a boy scout for a week..... Meeting night come and my son is in tears because he did not earn the rank and an older boy needs to test him on the requirements.

 

Son finally got the tenderfoot requirements done and now he needs to ask the SM for a conference......Scout waits a month and still hasn't asked.....he is afraid of the SM so I ask the SM for him and the SM tells me that my son has to ask.....What should I do????

 

I am confused and frustrated.....Scouting isn't fun for me any more......

 

 

this story is pulled form hundreds of post read on this forum and personal experiences....

 

Offering it as food for thought.

[SeattlePioneer]

Opinions may differ here, I'll be interested in other comments.

 

 

I have no problem with letting Scouts fail from time to time, but they need training in skills and practice in using them.

 

A cooking class that includes making and baking pancakes, with practice for each Scout in the skill before depending on it for breakfast is a good Scouting practice.

 

Having the Scoutmaster explain the rules for advancement and introducing Scouts who can sign off requirements would be a good plan. As a part of that training, have each Scout ask one of those Scouts to verify a skill and sign off the requirement, so they will get some practice at it.

 

 

Have a Scout demonstrate how to ask the Scoutmaster for a Scoutmaster conference, and have the new Scouts observe a model Scoutmaster conference.

 

The techniques modeled in this Scout Troop resemble throwing a boy in a lake to teach them to swim.

 

The basic idea that a boy needs to get wet to learn how to swim is correct, but the principle of teaching and practice in learning the skill is missing.

 

I'm guessing this is a New Scout Patrol rather than an existing patrol of new and older Scouts. A traditional patrol would have older boys who new Scouts could ask for advice, and they would have an incentive to teach new Scouts unless they had a taste for burned pancakes. If it is a New Scout Patrol, where is the Troop Guide?

 

And it needn't be adults doing all the teaching...

 

 

I'll be especially interested in what a certain curly horned African antelope may have to say on this subject....(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[BadenP]

BD

 

I have to agree with SP's post, scouting is about a boy learning sometimes you have to fail before you can succeed. With my sons it was time to let go and teach them to be proactive, not to give up so easily if you really want to succeed. Too many Webelos come to a troop after having mom and dad doing everything for them in Cubs with little to no confidence, and a lack of understanding that you are not given anything in Boy Scouts you have to work hard and earn it yourself. The SM in your example was right on in telling you to back off and let the boy learn for himself or get the assistance he may need to complete a task. In my troop as a kid my SM was the same way, and it taught me maturity, confidence, independence, and a real feeling of accomplishment.

 

I am thankful my boys had similiar experiences in their troop. Nothing I hate to see more than a SM who holds each boy by the hand and nursemaids them through the program.

[Brewmeister]

If we take the first few paragraphs of the OP's post away and start instead with "new recruit," you still have the same transition problems.

 

In my opinion, it is incumbent upon the SCOUT troop to assimilate new scouts into the program. It's not a Cub's fault that he only knows the Cub program, just as it is not a new recruit's fault that he knows nothing about the Scout program in general.

 

Or to put it another way, I don't read a lot of Tiger leaders bemoaning how kids come to them unprepared to be Cub Scouts. Instead they just do the job they're supposed to do.

 

The disdain that some Scouters have for Cub Scouts, as clearly demonstrated in this forum, also does not help the process at all. Those personal biases undoubtledly come out in real world interactions as well...(This message has been edited by brewmeister)

[perdidochas]

I get your point, but I think it shows a dysfunctional troop.

 

First, you are disappointed that crafts aren't coming home? I was happy that my sons were no longer doing childish stuff. I was glad to see them identify trees, count tree rings and show me knots.

 

Second, in terms of the first campout as a scout, had your son been putting up tents on his own? My boys had been helping me put up my huge tent, so the Scout tents were a breeze. I loved being a spectator at my first Scout campout. So they made pancakes with flavor crystals (our troops way of saying burned). It's part of it.

 

Third, in Webelos, the parent already can't sign the book. If you were the WDL, then you should know that things change in Boy Scouts.

 

Fourth, kid has to learn to ask the SM for a conference. It's part of the program. The ASM that works with new scouts tells them that.

 

 

[perdidochas]

Brewmeister,

 

At least in terms of the new Boy Scouts who have been Webelos, there should be some preparation (of both the boys and the parents) by the WDL for the boys' new role in Boy Scouts. I know that's what I viewed my role as WDL to be. Most of the things that BD's composite parent sees as a surprise at the Boy Scout level shouldn't be a surprise if the WDL is doing his/her job.

[Brewmeister]

Yes, I agree that part of Webelos is prep. But that doesn't mean Webelos are 100% ready to go. All of this:

 

Looking at my sons book, tenderfoot.....wow he has done all this so I sign it off, son is proud he has earned the rank already and he has been a boy scout for a week..... Meeting night come and my son is in tears because he did not earn the rank and an older boy needs to test him on the requirements.

 

Son finally got the tenderfoot requirements done and now he needs to ask the SM for a conference......Scout waits a month and still hasn't asked.....he is afraid of the SM so I ask the SM for him and the SM tells me that my son has to ask.....What should I do????

 

Is a troop issue, not a Webelos issue.

[BadenP]

Brew

 

I think you missed the point of the original post, this is NOT an issue of cubs vs scouts rather the issue is that there are or should be distinct differences between the two programs in what is expected of the boy. Too many Webelos dens,IMO, do NOT properly prepare the boys for transition into a troop but are run like a wolf or bear den, and many times by a woman who treat the boys more like a mom instead of developing in them a sense of self reliance, maturity, and independence. It is not the female WDL's fault either since she has no experience with a boy scout troop as a youth or an adult. Like it or not Cubs have created a generation of "cupcake" boy scouts.

 

If you want the Webelos to successfully transition to Boy Scouts then you have to run the Webelos program the way it supposed to be done, like a patrol not like another cub den, which too many packs do these days. I was a WDL for two years, all my boys successfully went into boy scouts, all but three became Eagles and those three made it to Life. When those boys went to their troops they were as ready as they could be for the boy scout troop, and that is the PRIMARY goal for all WDL's.

[Eagledad]

>> Most of the things that BD's composite parent sees as a surprise at the Boy Scout level shouldn't be a surprise if the WDL is doing his/her job.

[Basementdweller]

The Pack is fictional

 

The Troop is fictional

 

The parent prospective is fictional

 

 

 

But how many time have we read it in this forum.....

[BadenP]

Barry

 

What you said is very true and is why IMO the boy scout program has suffered so much for so long dumbing down the program and de-emphasizing the outdoor program to accomodate these unprepared new scouts. Even so the number of boy scout troops and boy scouts have been on a continual decline for decades. There are serious internal problems with both the cub scout and boy scout programs that if National continues to ignore them will result in the BSA programs becoming all fluff with little substance, and continuing drops in numbers.

[Stosh]

"I am confused and frustrated.....Scouting isn't fun for me any more......"

 

Ever since Tiger on through to where your boy is, you have forgotten one very important issue that a lot of people (often referred to as helicopter parent) forget. The program is not designed for adults. It is for the boys. In the beginning it strives hard to develop a strong family orientation basis for the boy to build on. It's scary going out into the world all by oneself. Yet at the boy matures, theoretically(!) he is supposed to be moving away from one's family into a life of a family of his own. It's also referred to as growing up. Yes, there are still ties to his original family, but the goal is to allow him to be independent enough to be a good husband/father/citizen in the world where he will end up.

 

The BSA program walks the youth through every step of the way. It starts out with Mom/Dad close at hand as they begin to explore their world. Then as they mature, they work with them to draw them into the world that they can learn and develop. Eventually as the boy (theoretically as an Eagle Scout) a full grown man capable and prepared to face the world on his own.

 

It is the parent who goes along for the ride expecting something for them in the process and when it isn't there, they are disappointed and it's not fun anymore for them. Like real life, to a certain degree parents do get left behind as their children grow, develop and mature. The day will come when they are expected to leave the nest. This is not something that any parent looks forward to. Every parent wants their baby to stay that way and never grow up.

 

I was fortunate enough to have parents who understood this. Now in my waning years, I am guardian for my aging father as he regresses back due to dementia. The roles have been reversed and had I not learned to take care of myself an others, he'd be locked away in an state institution somewhere.

 

Life ain't easy and one cannot protect their children as they grow and develop. It's not easy and it isn't fun, but it is necessary. Let the process work. Some stories are successful, others aren't. The role of the parent often times has a large impact on the outcome.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

I'm just saying for this thread, if troops want new scouts and want to keep them, they have to do the work because cub leaders don't have the experience required.

 

Barry

[DLChris71]

Perhaps in some of these "Go visit a troop requirements" a troop guide or Den Chief could have the boys do Tenderfoot Req. 4, 5, 11, or 12 (stuff the Webelos should have covered) and then sign off on a sheet of paper, explain that a boy would do it, and then have them go ask the SM (or an ASM, or WDL) to give them a SMC. That's the sort of thing that should be practiced in Webelos Dens anyway. The parents should see this pantomime and everyone should get together and talk or ask questions about what happened. That this is the basic form of advancement in Scouts (and should be in Webelos). With the clear understanding that this process is not something that can be accomplished with the parent hovering.

 

At some point though the hand holding has to end. Whether that is before cross over or if the scout unit can be more empathetic is something that needs to be worked out.

[Brewmeister]

Baden, I think I understand the OP's point, and it ties into what EagleDad says.

 

Basemenent describes a typical transition process, with the Webelos doing more and more scout stuff.

 

But the fact is that you can't fully know what it's like to be in a troop until you are in one. Let me tell you, I am an Eagle Scout and an experienced Cub Scout leader. I understand the program much better than your average parent as a result, and I also believed I prepared our Webelos den well.

 

Nevertheless, it has been a HUGE learning curve for my son, and for me, just a few months into the Boy Scout program. Blue cards and coferences and boards of review and just the way things work...those are not part of the Webelos transition program and are very abstract until you experience them.

 

And those are the things that you therefore can't expect any Webelos leader, no matter how proficient, to fully prepare the boys for. That has to fall to the troop.

 

It would help if every troop or every SM would try to remember what it felt like to be completely overwhelmed on day one. That's what I'm saying and that holds true whether you are dealing with a transitioning Webelos or a boy who is new to the program entirely.(This message has been edited by Brewmeister)