a prank, or hazing?

[dfolson]

This weekend is the Troop's first campout with the new Scouts. I will be acting as SM (Officially I am an ASM). I heard a few rumors that the older scouts may be planning a welcome of some sort to the new boys. I don't think it amounts to anything more than making late night noises outside their tents. I am wondering if I should ask the older Scouts about it...

 

Suggestions?

[fred8033]

If you have concerns, you have a duty to pursue them. Especially as your the scoutmaster. It doesn't have to be a witch hunt. It can be just a friendly conversation about how to treat others and a subtle discussion about hazing. Remember those new scouts can be very worried their first night. Scare them enough and they won't come back.

[Eagledad]

Many years back we had a troop in our District that ran a very cool campout where all the Webelos in the District were invited to see the troop in action. The troop generally got about 50 crossovers as a result of that campout, however they typically lost at least 30 or more scouts before summer camp. Short story is the Troop did not want to be a mega troop, so the adults turned their backs to the antics the older scouts played on the new scouts so as to drive away the weaker crossovers.

 

That had gone on several years, but when the district found out, the SM was gone with in the year. When I hear stories of pranks and hazing, I think back on the choices the adults made in that troop.

 

Barry

 

[Stosh]

The only pranks allowed in my troop were those that had once been played on the person doing the prank. If someone hadn't played the prank on you, you couldn't play it on another. If you only saw someone play the prank on someone else, you couldn't play it on another. That way the prankster always knew the consequences of the prank and understood how the other person was going to feel about it, he knew first hand.

 

That policy brought the pranks to a minimum with only a handful of the benign ones left over, i.e. smoke shifter, etc. Even those pranks were fully escorted. For example, the SPL always would lead the snipe hunt himself and help point them out when they got into the woods. It turned into a fun bonding time for our senior leader to get to know the new boys.

 

Of course, as SM, I also issued the warning that over the years since I was a 98#, 4' 11" scout, I knew all the practical jokes played on me were fair game. Every scout was warned that they had better bring on the big guns and always be watching over their shoulder.

 

My SPL took me up on a prank once and within a few minutes was screaming like a Girl Scout. I can't remember what his prank was he pulled on me, but I faked an injury and had him run frantically to my backpack to retrieve my first aid kit in the front pocket only to find my two pet minks packed it there. Take it from me, I know, nothing is worse than reaching into someone else's backpack pocket in the dark only to feel something furry/fuzzy. He wasn't a happy camper, but I did notice on his display table at the ECOH, he had a pair of mink pets of his own. I'm thinking he may make a pretty good SM someday.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Tampa Turtle]

While I am firmly in the "give me a break you call THAT hazing?" camp I agree with Fred. The first couple camp-outs terrify some newbies. Some it is the first time they are sleeping without Mom or Dad in the tent. I have had some who managed to never camp before or it was the first time they had been away from home other than a grandparent's house. They freak over the critters, the Friday night set up in the dark is frustrating and stressful, and they don't have cub scout leaders to coddle them.

 

I am sure some of us have had to deal with a sobbing boy who just wants to go home.

 

Not most, but some boys will have a rough night. If they can make it through that first night they will be walking a little taller. I would have the older boys cool it for the first couple campouts. Soon the newbies will running around in the dark playing scout games.

[Twocubdad]

Whether hazing or a simple prank, how do those actions hold up to being Friendly and Kind?

 

Although very minor, I count is as hazing. (And no, Beav, not Hazing as defined in the statutes, but hazing as defined by our troop.) It plays off the disparity in age, size or stature of the boys and that some of the younger guys may still have some fears of camping. If it's a fun thing to do with the Webelos, why isn't it fun to pull on the SPL?

 

Even if the younger guys are on to it, it's still teaching them this is acceptable behavior. Classic slippery slope.

[dennis99ss]

ditto-twocubdad

[BDPT00]

The only pranks allowed in my troop were those that had once been played on the person doing the prank.

 

If they can make it through that first night they will be walking a little taller.

 

*** And we call ourselves mentors and setters of a good example?? Absolutley unacceptable in my unit. Also unacceptable for NYLT, Wood Badge, basic leader training, or the OA in my neck of the woods. It sounds to me as though some leaders think it's a good practice to thin the herd. Doesn't work for me.

BDPT00

[ScoutNut]

At this week's Troop meeting give a bit of a SM minute on proper, and improper, behavior.

 

If the meeting is past, or you are having no meeting before this weekend's trip, then do the SM minute onsite after camp has been set up.

 

[5yearscouter]

Sometimes all it takes to take the wind out of the sales of a prank is to tell the younger scouts to expect something, that the older guys may want to play a trick on them and try to scare them, but that you'll be watching out for them and it will be ok. make sure they all have GOOD flashlights or tent battery powered lights, that they each have a buddy in their tent or 3 to a tent at first if they are newbie/scared.

 

And then tell the older boys that you told the new guys to expect a prank, but you know they aren't that mean to try to scare the new guys on their first campout. And suggest that the old guys think of what they could do if the new guys get scared and need a "big brother" type to check on them. Remind them that they were once the new guys.

[Stosh]

I guess it all boils down to what, if any harm, is being allowed with the prank. The SPL taking the boys out on a snipe hunt is just fun for most of the boys. Here they have one of the older boys taking interest in the new guys, the new guys think it's great, then one has to take that bonding into consideration.

 

If one is to carry the logic of this to it's extreme, then every parent in the country needs to be held accountable to the whole issue of Santa Claus, the biggest snipe hunt of them all.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

What's a mink in this context?

[BDPT00]

The SPL thinks this is a bonding moment? It has nothing to do with teasing the little guys? Odd, but if that's the culture in your troop, and everybody gets a warm fuzzy from it, far be it from me to change it.

BDPT00

[perdidochas]

Bonding is from competing in a camporee in the pouring rain, it's not from harassing the younger scouts. New recently crossed over scouts don't need anything to add to their fear level.

[Stosh]

No, bonding is an SPL going out in the woods and sitting with each boy as they wait for snipe to come along. They talk quietly about all the neat things they see in the woods, and how much fun the next few years is going to be for them. The joke is always that there really are snipe, but they're as rare as hen's teeth here in this part of the country. Of course this also means that any of the new boys can take out their future newbies like the SPL did to get to know them on a snipe hunt too.

 

Doing camporee competitions in a downpour will pretty much guarantee the newbie will not come back.

 

The only way I would agree that camporee competitions in a downpour do any good is with older boys that have the experience and need for adventure before it draws them together in a common difficulty.

 

Getting your newbies out there at a camporee competition in a downpour is like taking them down to the water front and tossing them into to see if they can swim. Ain't gonna happen on my watch.

 

Stosh